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TOPIC: Hell hath no fury like a doctor scorned

Morgan Hell hath no fury like a doctor scorned 1 month 15 minutes ago #15

Morgan
I wonder if Wilkie called someone at the AFL before he used parliamentary privilege to defame a bunch of people? It doesn’t sound like it.

There is a big difference between saying ‘clubs are using off-the-books drug testing to help players avoid AFL drug tests’ and ‘the AFL runs an illicit drug testing program parallel to the performance enhancing drug tests conducted by SIA/WADA’.

Can someone explain to me what was revelatory in Wilkie’s comments? The AFL’s illicit drug testing rules only allow for the players names to be made public and known to the club on a second offence. So, if a player does test positive and isn’t going to play, then I can absolutely see players/Doctors making up an excuse to explain the absence. I’m not really sure what the alternative is.

What am I missing? I feel like the AFL didn’t come out and refute Wilkie’s allegations because all he did was very poorly explain the system that’s been in place for a decade.
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Sloby Hell hath no fury like a doctor scorned 4 weeks 2 days ago #16

Sloby
I’m not certain, but I think it’s likely the drugs used by players are cocaine and MDMA.

As far as I know, cocaine and MDMA are not performance enhancing. I’m not concerned about players cheating by using these drugs in the AFL.

The use of these substances is widespread in society among those who can afford it, especially long younger people, therefore it’s not surprising it’s widespread amongst AFL teams.

In my opinion it would be very unfortunate for players to get rubbed out for long periods for using substances that are listed as performance enhancing, but don’t actually enhance performance. How would we feel if one of Freo's most promising players was busted by WADA for cocaine and MDMA and sanctioned for a few years?

Wilkie has done some good things in his time, but I’m not sure a moral crusade on this issue benefits anyone.
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shane Hell hath no fury like a doctor scorned 4 weeks 2 days ago #17

shane
It's a health issue. That's why there are 3 strikes.

If a player has a concussion and the club cheat their way through the concussion test so the player could play next week, the risk is life long brain damage.

If a player takes addictive drugs and you help them to cheat the test, the risk is addiction and mental health issues.

It's basic good v evil stuff.
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Helenv, Burton said You Beaut

Sloby Hell hath no fury like a doctor scorned 4 weeks 2 days ago #18

Sloby
That seems overly simplistic to me Shane.

If we have players out there drinking excessive amount of alcohol, then while they risk addiction and brain damage etc. there's no risk to their AFL careers. Are you concerned about that?

I'm not sure what the best approach might be to illicit substance use in the AFL, but spare me the good v evil dichotomy please.
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shane Hell hath no fury like a doctor scorned 4 weeks 2 days ago #19

shane
It is simple though. Cheating on the test designed to look after player welfare is wrong.
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Tragic said You Beaut

Morgan Hell hath no fury like a doctor scorned 4 weeks 2 days ago #20

Morgan
Is that what Wilkie is alleging? That if the players test positive they aren't getting a strike? I haven't read that anywhere and no-one has filled in the gaps.

Wilkie said players were being tested at a clinic by club Doctors, and if they tested positive they were saying they were injured. The AFL basically said 'yes, that's the system'.

I'm not sure what the allegation of cheating is.
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Tragic Hell hath no fury like a doctor scorned 4 weeks 2 days ago #21

Tragic
AFL illicit drug policy

The AFL appears to have a policy with clearly documented outcomes.
They also have an undocumented mechanism that is designed to circumvent their policy. I think cheating is a fair description of their actions
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jezzaargh said You Beaut

Morgan Hell hath no fury like a doctor scorned 4 weeks 2 days ago #22

Morgan
The AFL has said ‘ Urine tests conducted by doctors to determine if a player has used illicit substances are part of the AFL's Illicit Drug Policy medical model and have been for some time.“

The policy you linked says players submit to urine tests.

I’m not trying to be obtuse, but what’s the cheating part?
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Tragic Hell hath no fury like a doctor scorned 4 weeks 2 days ago #23

Tragic
They are acting in a manner designed to circumvent the stated goals of their own policy.
Maybe “misleading and deceptive behaviour” is a better legal term. I call it cheating. Maybe that is not legally correct
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Morgan Hell hath no fury like a doctor scorned 4 weeks 2 days ago #24

Morgan
Is Wilkie alleging the same players are going back time and again and not getting strikes? Isn’t the point that more testing is good because once the players have a strike they have to do counselling and whatnot and the next strike they are outed and suspended.

I don’t understand the circumvention part.
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hypen Hell hath no fury like a doctor scorned 4 weeks 2 days ago #25

hypen
So Morgan that's what immediately i thought - does whatever they are doing with testing dovetail into their illicit drugs policy.

What would happen if the AFL didn't have an illicit drug policy beyond, "if you want help put your hand up, we'll ensure time away from the game and appropriate resources? Otherwise take your chances with WADA.
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Tragic Hell hath no fury like a doctor scorned 4 weeks 2 days ago #26

Tragic
You do an unofficial test with the purpose of avoiding an official test. The outcome is avoiding the obligation to comply with requirements of the documented protocol. A process that circumvents the rules.
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Bizkit, Raglan Matt, Burton said You Beaut

Morgan Hell hath no fury like a doctor scorned 4 weeks 2 days ago #27

Morgan
It's the use of 'off-the-books' that does a lot of heavy lifting, but in his speech Wilkie says it was both off-the-books and organised by the AFL. That's the bit that's confusing. What books is he talking about?

What Wilkie describes is actually the system for someone under a first strike. What I'm curious about is whether it goes beyond that. The whole illicit drug policy is off the books if by books you mean WADA's books.

The first strike is off the clubs books and the public's books because that's how the program is designed.

If Wilkie is alleging that there's something going on beyond the first strike, or that strikes aren't being recorded, that's 'off the books' then that would be pretty explosive, but he hasn't, and based on the AFL's response it doesn't seem like they think there is.

This feels a little Godwin Grechy to me.
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Sloby said You Beaut

Mercury Hell hath no fury like a doctor scorned 4 weeks 2 days ago #28

Mercury
Geez, nothing good comes from this. Three points from me.

Firstly, if a player "is on" cocaine or MDMA when training or playing, then this may not be performance enhancing but it does enhance the player's likelihood of injuring themselves or someone else. They should not be allowed to train/play.

It's not the crime but the cover-up that will get you. That old adage is the most salient for me in regard to Wilkie's parliamentary comments. The hiding/secrecy just demands close examination by those who care, those in the media and those in official capacities.

Lastly, any player who is omitted from a team due to general soreness, hamstring awareness, ... will now draw the askance looks. "Is he/she on the gear?"
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Raglan Matt said You Beaut