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TOPIC: Freo v Adelaide

The_Yeti Freo v Adelaide 3 years 4 weeks ago #85

The_Yeti
The umps were good today except for the usual suspect Nicholls.

Still woeful, will never improve. Blight on the game.
Egurls Suck!
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pollyanna, Raglan Matt, Corporal Agarn, freo00 said You Beaut

Raglan Matt Freo v Adelaide 3 years 4 weeks ago #86

Raglan Matt
WTB, you take a potshot at Walters every week, then when called on it bring out the above comments, almost like a cut & paste. Someone has to stick up for him.
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freo00 Freo v Adelaide 3 years 4 weeks ago #87

freo00
I didn't see Tex blatantly push anyone in the back twice that resulted in two goals in front of Nicholls ?
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Walter the baker Freo v Adelaide 3 years 4 weeks ago #88

Walter the baker
I won’t drag this out RM but I think you are exaggerating.
- a quick look back over the last few months and you will find I don’t take “potshots” “every week” at Sonny
- I have (maybe a couple of times over his entire career) mentioned my concern about playing for frees. I don’t mind if you disagree (you might even be right and I may be wrong) but please don’t misrepresent my comments. This is after all a discussion forum.
- I have regularly posted positive comments about Sonny. He is an outstanding role model on and off the field, especially for our young indigenous men.
- you don’t need to “stick up for him”. My comment relates to a small part of his play. I am otherwise a fan but that doesn’t mean he, and any other player, is immune from occasional concerns.
- non of this is backtracking because we disagree. You are entitled to a different view. That’s fine with me. I’m ok with being corrected but please don’t misinterpret my contributions to justify an alternative point of view.
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Docker by the Sea Freo v Adelaide 3 years 3 weeks ago #89

Docker by the Sea
Sonny with the ball in hand has any player in his vicinity twitching. Currently he is looking for contact and trying to accentuate this, way too much.
I think he is doing himself a disservice. If he gets back to his ball hunting best, the frees will come. Unfortunately he may miss a few in the mean time as the umpires adjust. They hate to look silly because they got sucked in.
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Blue1red1 Freo v Adelaide 3 years 3 weeks ago #90

Blue1red1
Question re Cerra's substitution from the game, I thought he is ineligble to play next week as he was "Subbed out"? Yet I hear the strain maybe low grade (great news) and they expect he will be right to play next week at Optus vs the Roos?

Anyone able to clarrify the rule for me as I am clearly confused.
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Morgan Freo v Adelaide 3 years 3 weeks ago #91

Morgan
From the 2012 season onwards, Walters has won more free kicks than any other Freo player every season, except 2013 and 2019 when he finished second.

I’m constantly infuriated by Joel Selwood and Luke Shuey being awarded free kicks, so I thought they’d make an interesting comparison. Selwood has won 2.6 free kicks a game over his career, and Shuey 1.7, compared to Walters 1.8. It’s worth noting though that Selwood and Shuey have exclusively played on-ball for their careers, whereas Walters has played a fair bit forward so has had fewer chances to win frees. Adjusted for possessions, Walters averages a free kick every 9.4 possessions, almost identical as Selwood who wins a free kick every 9.5 possessions. Shuey wins a free kick every 14 possessions.

So we know Walters is the most prolific free kick winner in the team for a decade, and wins frees at the same rate as a Selwood. Yet the argument is that he is still being treated unfairly by the umpires, including on the grounds of the umpires’ unconscious bias (some people might have put that more strongly). That might well be true, but he wins more frees than Fyfe (1.3 per game) and Dave Mundy (0.7 per game), who are around the ball more, so the interesting question to me is why are people more upset about the umpires’ treatment of Walters than Mundy, despite him winning more than twice as many free kicks as Mundy who, if unconscious bias plays a role, is as close as a golden-haired boy as Freo is ever likely to have.

I don’t have a definitive answer to that, but my view is that Walters looks like he is being infringed against more than Fyfe or Mundy, in part because he’s more slight, so contact affects him more. Fyfe and Mundy barrel through a contest – Walters ricochets off them. Fyfe, in particular, has given away more frees than he has won over his career, I think for that reason. If someone pushes Mundy in the back, or hits him high he just powers through it. I also think someone like Dave Mundy stays very upright as he approaches a contest, and usually isn’t moving very fast. Walters attacks the ball at pace, and is often horizontal before he’s even hit the contest. I think for all those reasons, when the same level of contact is applied to Walters he is more likely to go to ground.

There are probably times when Walters is looking for a free (like most players), but I think the reason he look so frequently infringed is the 18kg difference between Mundy and Walters.

So while I stick up for Walters if he’s accused by opposition fans for milking free kicks, while he is getting a Selwoodesque number of free kicks (and a better run than Shuey), I find it difficult to get behind arguments he is unfairly singled out by umpires.
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The_Yeti Freo v Adelaide 3 years 3 weeks ago #92

The_Yeti
Yeah, you might have missed the part where Walters gets targeted every time he plays by opposition players who know they likely won't get pinged when they infringe.

If Walters was just an average player, this wouldn't happen. He's not average, he's exceptional and small, so he's an easy target.

This is not limited to Walters. Fyfe used to get all kinds of attention until he became too strong for most. Brayshaw, Serong, Freddy, Henry - all young, all get targeted on and off the ball. Treacy, Cox, Darcy...not so much.

Walters may add a bit of mayo at times but he's never gotten the protection that other players get and isn't treated equally by the umpires.
Egurls Suck!
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Raglan Matt, freo00, Hamihill said You Beaut

Mushroom Freo v Adelaide 3 years 3 weeks ago #93

Mushroom
Let's not beat around the bush.
i Some players do things to draw an opposition arm high on them.
ii Some players do things to draw attention to an opposition arm high on them.
iii Some players do neither as they will beat the opposition more often than lose without worrying about the above.

You can place Selwood, Shuey, Walters, Mundy and Fyfe next to their most desired and also most often seen attribute of the three.

Walters looks so good when it is iii as he did in the second half yesterday. So good. Yet he's gained a reputation of ii from opposition fans that we all guess is influencing umpires. Gerard Healy doesn't help.
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Raglan Matt Freo v Adelaide 3 years 3 weeks ago #94

Raglan Matt
Morgan, I know I will be accused of cherry picking, but what gets me upset is the glaring difference in decisions by umpires. The umpiring decisions for Cripps (Carlton V Freo) when he received 3 or 4 frees for push in the back, compared to the HTB decision against Walters early in yesterdays game. You can't put that down to player build, ducking or staging, it is blatantly favouring one player, and punishing another for identical actions.
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docbert Freo v Adelaide 3 years 3 weeks ago #95

docbert
@blue1red1 I think the 12 day break is just if you were judged concussed, not just for being subbed out.
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Blue1red1 Freo v Adelaide 3 years 3 weeks ago #96

Blue1red1
Cheers Docbert, I understood the concusion protocol, I also thought that if a player was subbed out injured, not concussed, they were not allowed to play the following week to stop coaches using it as a tactical substituion.

I don't know why I was thinking this - possibly mis lead by media when the rule was being discussed before introduction. I was trying to find out where the "Actual" rule is stated so I could read it and understand how it is applied.
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Quasimodo Freo v Adelaide 3 years 3 weeks ago #97

Quasimodo
I dont say much on umpiring, I see it as swings and roundabouts and I dont like blaming them for a loss. But on Sunday we won and some of the decisions I saw were woeful, a number of times our players were pulled out of the contest but no holding the man was paid. In one passage we were infringed 3 times and the free kick was finally paid when Mundy was tripped by a crow. I thought the umpiring was poor and very home crowd influenced.
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blockerhall Freo v Adelaide 3 years 3 weeks ago #98

blockerhall
It's one thing to appeal for frees. It's another to do it when the ball is still there to be won, which Sonson was guilty of on the weekend.
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goodie, Bizkit, Down on down, Docker by the Sea said You Beaut