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TOPIC: Coach vs Players

Docker by the Sea Coach vs Players 4 years 9 months ago #29

Docker by the Sea
Yeti I will attempt to answer most of the points that you have put to me, forgive me if I miss anything as I am on my phone and can’t see your post to reference.
Firstly I don’t particularly like Lyon. I find him aloof and condescending a lot of the time. This is an opinion of mine without any knowledge of his ability to coach a footy team.
I accept that I was a little prone to hyperbole around the statement that he is universally despised. I stand by the assertion that there have been many posts over an extended time that have suggested player discontent with him, ie Barlow, Danyle Pearce.
I find the ignoring of closer margins as a measure for improvement hard to fathom. To me it stands to reason that this one of the few measures, that could be used to measure improvement in a bottom of the table team. A team that loses by ten plus goals must surely have been less competitive than one that lost by two. I am sure in previous years percentage was one of the measures used to justify that the club was a long way off.
To disregard being in contention for the eight as only mathematically possible seems to fly in the face of applying evidence to the debate. The AFL ladder by its very nature is mathematical. I’m by no means a maths guru but I think is probably the basis upon which most things can actually be proven.
If you reread my original post I didn’t claim that we had beaten 3 current top four sides. GWS and Collingwood were in the top 4 at the time we beat them I think. They were also much closer to full strength at the time as well.
I acknowledged that we had also lost to 3 of the bottom 4 teams. I don’t get how you can argue on one hand that our losing margin is irrelevant in the overall scheme of things, then on the other, our winning margins are to small so the wins can be discounted.
I wholeheartedly agree that we should all be free to have our opinions and argue about them but I struggle when they are expressed as the truth.
I am as frustrated as any other Dockers supporter but I’m not as convinced as others here that Lyon is the one and only problem. I am also not convinced that the rebuild is a categoric failure. I see conflicting evidence for both sides of the argument.
I look at the development of players such as Cerra and Logue and I think they have progressed. Logie has been limited by injury but looks good to me. If I was to compare Brayshaw and Cerra to Rayner and Uniake, I think they stack up pretty well.
In summary there is evidence to both sides of conversation. The optimist in me sees a resurgence as soon as next year. The pessimist is very, very worried
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Docker by the Sea Coach vs Players 4 years 9 months ago #30

Docker by the Sea
RM, I am unsure whether you are referring to the team that took the park on the weekend or our overall list.
If you are referring to the team on the weekend, then with Sandi, Ballantyne and Mundy all on the park would go a long way to explaining this.
The reason for playing Sandi and Ballantyne is an entire thread on its own. This could be down to multiple reasons. I think a desperate measure to try and provide some sort of focal point in attack but insure against the lack of speed that this causes. I think it could also indicate that the players at the level below either aren’t ready or good enough.
I also wasn’t just speaking of age, I was speaking experience as well. Schulz, Logue, Darcy, Cerra, Brayshaw and Duman are players from the top of my head that I would consider inexperienced that took the field on the weekend.
Langdon, Tucker and to a lesser degree Blakely I would categorise as that next bracket of players that you need more of your team to be. All three of these guys are now beginning to perform week in week out. I was ready to write Tucker off earlier this year but he has shown that players need time to adapt to perform at AFL level.
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rogerrocks Coach vs Players 4 years 9 months ago #31

rogerrocks
Tucker shows the dilemma selectors face. He's good now, and persisting with him seems like a good thing to have done. But we persisted with Sutcliffe, and that did not seem like such a good idea. Suban is another case. Was good early, but never actually got much better.
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goodie, Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

NPK Coach vs Players 4 years 9 months ago #32

NPK
When you lose to the 3 bottom teams, the players are to blame
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Docker by the Sea Coach vs Players 4 years 9 months ago #33

Docker by the Sea
I thought if you beat good teams it was the players and if you lost it was the coach. Very similar to when the team goes out and disobeys team rules to get a healthy lead, only to be told by the coach to go back to the game plan.
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larkin Coach vs Players 4 years 9 months ago #34

larkin
I don't mind Rolys narkyness. He's had a tough run from local media and they ask stupid questions and they just make stuff up. I get to hear other coaches interviewed on 91.3 some of them are very good value and the interviews can be quite intelligent but I don't see much of that here in WA.
Is that Roly's fault or the local media - I dunno.
And I don't get all the criticism of his pressers post game. He doesn't and shouldn't slag his players and there is only so much he can anyway but he does say a lot if you listen and often takes some of the blame for poor decisions.
I've criticised him on some things but in reaction to others on here I do it rarely – cos really its all supposition and noise.
Does anyone listen to (ass coach) the Rock after 7 on Saturday mornings – I've never managed to catch the weekly chat.
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CaptSnooze said You Beaut

hypen Coach vs Players 4 years 9 months ago #35

hypen
Turn the lights out when you are done please Larkin. What about the stuff Lyon makes up?
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CaptSnooze said You Beaut

DJKL Coach vs Players 4 years 9 months ago #36

DJKL
I've been having an "argument" with a very angry Dees supporting mate, and for each disastrous thing he lists about Melbourne I think "I'm pretty sure Freo have been similar" so I do a bit of research and indeed come up with very similar results - for example, biggest fall from top of the ladder to bottom of the ladder in one season; or highest draft picks that have come to nothing or gone onto other clubs. I started giving examples as a bit of a joke at first to try and show him things aren't all bad at the Dees, but I am quickly finding it to be sober reading as I realise how bad things really are for Freo. <insert sad face gif here>
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Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

hypen Coach vs Players 4 years 9 months ago #37

hypen
This club bit the bullet in 2000 and again in 2007 list management wise and then six years later they had their best times in their history.

I'd argue they didn't need to strip the list back the way they did rather change the way they played football. Anyway here we are and they need to nail this draft/trade period - smack it out the park.

And they need to play Brayshaw and Cerra on the ball. they need to ruck Darcy. They need to play Logue and Crowden. They need to take the best kid in the draft with pick four, yep we're finishing that low. They need to keep their picks for any decent player that leaves and pick the best available WA kid. They need to trade the surplus forwards they have on their list. We need to bite the bullet again. Bar Fabian Francis this is 2001 people.
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Bizkit, cletus, CaptSnooze, Timbo29 said You Beaut

shane Coach vs Players 4 years 9 months ago #38

shane
And the breakthrough came at the 3 year mark.
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cletus Coach vs Players 4 years 9 months ago #39

cletus
Geez Hyp. I hope you arent recommending getting picks 1& 3 (later to be Hodgey & Mitchell, missing Judd and Ball) and getting Trent Croad back....

But I know exactly where you are coming from.....we need those young blokes playing, but playing proper attacking 'free thinking' football...

Ross isnt the bloke for that...
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Gumnut Coach vs Players 4 years 9 months ago #40

Gumnut
And we still have a 196cm tall forward languishing in the WAFL. He was called on to ruck against ex Freo talls Jon Griffin and Strnadica and played his best game for Peel with 22 disposals and 11 hitouts because the rest of Peel's team were midgets. And before the naysayers comment saying Griff had 64 hitouts it's worth mentioning that Griff & Strnadica combined for only 15 disposals between them. The name is Hugh Dixon and with 4 games left this season he should be given a crack at AFL level to see how well he fares. He couldn't do any worse than Cam McCarthy as a tall forward option in the form he's currently in.
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themagoos said You Beaut

Corporal Agarn Coach vs Players 4 years 9 months ago #41

Corporal Agarn
It really annoys me when people try to use the "we're a young team excuse" Funny how they don't take into account how young the Bulldogs team was on the weekend, or how young and inexperienced other teams are, like Brisbane as an example.
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Raglan Matt said You Beaut

Gumnut Coach vs Players 4 years 9 months ago #42

Gumnut
How do you think Crows supporters feel Corp, second oldest team in the comp, no injuries to key players and they are terrible. Only reason they;re in top 8 because of 2 games against uncompetitive Gold Coast. At least Port do have some young kids playing but things really heating up in Adelaide at the moment.
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Corporal Agarn said You Beaut