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TOPIC: You Can't be Serious

freoboy49 You Can't be Serious 4 years 10 months ago #29

freoboy49
DBTS, wasn't it Bloody Mark Harvey who largely created the team that reached the GF?
Anyway, we got there under RTB and we've been 'rebuilding' ever since!
BTW, is Mark Harvey available? ... come back MH, all is forgiven .... would you like to be CEO?
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Corporal Agarn You Can't be Serious 4 years 10 months ago #30

Corporal Agarn
Unfortunately all that genuine respect has very quickly evaporated and we're back to laughing stock status with the same coach taking us there.
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purplepower You Can't be Serious 4 years 10 months ago #31

purplepower
As he said "we're in the business of winning premierships "....he's been here 8 years and fact is he delivered nothing on top dollar.....respect is a big word and in my eyes he's lost that by making a lot of poor choices himself.
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rogerrocks You Can't be Serious 4 years 10 months ago #32

rogerrocks
We were good from 2012 - 2015 under Roly. You can say he inherited a good team, but Mark Harvey didn't create Pav, McPharlin, Johnno, Fyfe, Ballas et al. And you can argue that the 2013 team under a better coach would have won the GF, but its not something we'll ever know. I've always thought Ibbo's injury was what hurt us the most.
And I would argue that decent umpires, a fit McPharlin and Fyfe without a broken leg and 2015 might have ended differently.
Happy to accept that 2016 - now has been rubbish.
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purple kit You Can't be Serious 4 years 10 months ago #33

purple kit
He was responsible for driving us over the cliff in 2016, then blamed the decline on the players, essentially the same players who had won the minor premiership the year before, who when reunited for Pavs farewell game beat the team that went on to win the premiership, and many of whom would go on to win the WAFL premiership playing for Peel.
This launched us into a 4 year rebuild and after turning over 3/4 of the list, guess what, we are still going to be in the bottom 6 teams again this year.

Seriously, what a waste. His time is up, has to be moved on and I can’t see any viable reason why we shouldn’t get it over with now.
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freo00 You Can't be Serious 4 years 10 months ago #34

freo00
Ross L. certainly didn't create Pav, McPharlin, Johnno, Fyfe, Ballas et al !

That is for sure !
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Bizkit You Can't be Serious 4 years 10 months ago #35

Bizkit
I would argue Harvey had a far greater positive influence on most of those players careers than RL.

I) Pav is Pav regardless of his coach. I think he had greater control to play where he liked (move through the midfield to get the footy or go forward and finish) under Harvs but surely RL wasn't dumb enough to restrict him to any set position when he took over. Nil all draw.

II) McPharlin was also a legend regardless but for mine, a far more influential player under Harvey when he was allowed to take marks and rebound the ball. All he was allowed to do was spoil and kill the ball under RL which he was incredibly effective at but was never as good rebounding and intercepting possessions as earlier in his career.

III) Johnno's rebound, intercepting and creativity was at it's greatest under Harvs but he kept enough of that under RL to still be a great player. There's still probably more owed to Harvs than RL.

IV) Fyfe begun his career under Harvey who saw his potential as a midfielder and began giving him stints there after being recruited as a half forward. It's pretty hard to argue Harvs didn't shape him far more than RL. For example, in 2011 under Harvs he averaged 25 touches and kicked 18 goals, stamping himself as a gun of the competition in his second season spending most of his time in the middle with rests forward.

V) Ballas was shaped far more under Harvs as they combined with the likes of Chopper to establish the forward pressure game plan that everyone now uses.

While all these players reached high points in their career under RL, that was more due to the maturity of the side which had grown under Harvey and naturally continued under RL. While Pav may rave in his book about RL and the structure he brought that Pav craved, that doesn't allow players to learn and flourish.

When rebuilding a side like Harvey was (or we supposedly are now) with a number of fresh faced kids, you have to allow them to learn and grow. To be able to test themselves out and practice their skills, their movement, their reading of the play, to learn what they can and can't achieve. That happened under Harvey and it allowed for a premiership window to open up.

That's also been the most disappointing part of the previous few seasons of this 'rebuild'. There's no license for players to take the game on, to learn, to test their boundaries, to take risks and make mistakes. That's probably the number one reason right now I would be telling RL to pack his bags the moment he tried to ask for an extension. This safe, structured, negative shutdown football he employees is not just a blight to the game and the viewing experience, it's stunted any rebuild and we'll pay for that.
Nathan: When did you get balls?
Simon: I've always had balls you've just never seen them.
Nathan: That's the gayest thing I've ever heard.
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Davo You Can't be Serious 4 years 10 months ago #36

Davo
Carlton is full of young players testing their boundaries, I'm not sure sure that's an ideal situation either.

We have good players. Freo's situation is not about youth or experience and if they grow or not. There are plenty of guys to come in from Peel. They can all play footy.

It's about the game plan that works for 6 weeks before the players collapse. I thought this situation had improved with the new recruits but clearly not.
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pollyanna You Can't be Serious 4 years 10 months ago #37

pollyanna
I would like to thank my mates here who have now reached the same conclusion I did three years ago. Heads up and it won't cost three ugly frustrating seasons next time.
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Suker You Can't be Serious 4 years 10 months ago #38

Suker
I never realised Harvey was such a genius.
Defence is what every team prioritizes first and foremost. It is the first thing all young players have to grasp as they progress. But how teams turn defence into attack should be as important.
Interestingly Geelong have had fewer points scored against than us, but alternatively have scored over 200 more points than us. So Geelong are stingy, yet turn defence into attack very efficiently. Therein lies our problem.
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themagoos You Can't be Serious 4 years 10 months ago #39

themagoos
He drove us off the cliff in 2015 by running our older players into the ground to the point that we limped into the finals barely beating bottom teams while refusing to inject any excitement and freshness into the team by playing those 'crabs' sitting in the magoos such as Blakely, Langdon, Weller, Tucker et al.
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shane You Can't be Serious 4 years 10 months ago #40

shane
I don't think defending is any more important than attacking. Defending is much easier than attacking so coaches have prioritised it, and it's become the trend.

For a coach too go against that trend and said - "we aim to kick 30 goals every week" rather than "we aim to keep the opposition under 10 goals" - they'd want to burn them at the stake after every loss. There was a time when it was the other way around. I'm sure it will swing back at some point.

The problem with Ross at the moment seems to be that he adapted a set of theories that were successful rather than came up with his own ideas. I just don't think he has the fundamentals of coaching down to be able to re-invent anything. He's a blunt instrument.
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Mushroom You Can't be Serious 4 years 10 months ago #41

Mushroom
There's a myth that you can't defend well and still kick 18 goals.

It floats out of narratives.

Like 50% more running. Or war of attrition. Or shoulders to the wheel. Or cobblers. Or talent times motivation equals performance. Or failure is feedback. And other assorted slop nuggets.

This pus comes from the mouths of two coaches much more than others. Carlton's and Freo's. It leads to unwatchable football and it needs to stop.
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Raglan Matt You Can't be Serious 4 years 10 months ago #42

Raglan Matt
Suker, I think the Cats are proving the theories of some 60's/70's coaches right, like the one that I think, Allen Jeans floated, "If you are scoring goals the opposition aren't."
It's not about being efficient in turning defense into attack fer cry'n out loud, it's about attacking in the first place,.
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