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TOPIC: Tactics

Morgan Tactics 4 years 10 months ago #1

Morgan
At one point during the game yesterday Mark Ricciuto, when asked what the clubs could do to open up the game, said rather candidly that he had no idea. Ricciuto doesn’t strike me as one of the great football tacticians, but he obviously knows a bit about the game, and I thought it was interesting that he was at a loss. Given his job is to be insightful about football, admitting he had no insight seemed to me to be a career-limiting comment. In his defence though, based on what we saw he couldn’t even rely on the old standby of ‘work rate’ (it was clearly 100% from both sides), so even Paul Roosy Roos and the other talking heads would have struggled.

Certainly both Lyon and Pyke were also at a loss, or had no interest in opening up the game.

So, I’m wondering what the assembled Dockerland hive-mind might have done yesterday – let’s say after half time – when the game had bogged down, and the teams were basically arm-wrestling to a stand-still.

For what it’s worth, I’ve never really been sure what is the correct counter-move to an opposition team which has put a spare behind the ball, plenty of numbers at contest and only a few men forward. There are a few options:

Option A: Match the numbers in your forward line and man up the loose defender. I can see the appeal to this, being that you reduce the chances of the spare back marking the ball and being used on the way out, but whenever teams do this the opposition coach just ends up putting yet another spare back down, and on-and-on until you end up with a clogged forward line, still with one short, and the opposition has all the space ahead of them going forward.

Option B: Leave the opposition’s spare man back, and send a spare man back of your own. That leaves two teams with equal numbers at the contest, and spare numbers in the backline. This seems to be the default position and you end up with the ball pinballing up and down the ground, but both teams find it hard to score.

Option C: Leave your spare player in the midfield, and hope that player is more damaging than the opposition’s spare man back. Coaches occasionally use this option, but in what seemed like greasy conditions yesterday (especially after halftime), and given how many numbers were around the ball, I’m not sure, say, 11 v 10 men in the middle gives you as much of an advantage as, say, 4 v 3 in the backline.

I think the 6-6-6 rule was a tacit acknowledgement that having numbers behind the ball is very difficult to play against. The problem yesterday, and with a lot of games, is if you don’t score much then the rule is basically pointless for all but about 5 minutes of a two-hour game.

I know RM will point out that our players should have lead at the ball more, and I tend to agree with him, but yesterday it would have been almost impossible to time a lead. There were very few instances yesterday, from either team, of a player having time and space to set up a chain of possession where a forward could get on the end of a lead. The couple of times it happened the deep defenders from both teams managed to thwart the attack well. There didn’t seem to me many times when there was an option in the middle (although it’s a bit tough watching on TV).

Perhaps Freo could have done a better job of getting the ball out in space from the clearances, but I thought the pressure at the contest, and even once the ball was released, was fierce the whole game. Langdon got it 27 times, for example, but how many times were those possessions hurried?

Personally, I think for a game like yesterday we’d be better having Hodor at the contest. Choosing a plodder might seem counter-intuitive if your goal is to open up the game as we’d we lose a little speed and flexibility, but Hodor has a much better chance than Lobb of getting the ball moving the right way at the contest. If Fyfe and Mundy can get their hands on the ball with just a hair of space, they have a better chance of getting the ball to the outside.

I’d also try and set up Freo’s loose man as a rotating player starting midfield and floating forward as a link man – as much as possible someone like Walters, CamMac, Hogan, Langdon or Cerra - and generally be moving forwards around a bit more on the fly to confuse the opposition. The problem with this is that without a runner and with a team lacking in continuity, we’d probably be more likely to confuse ourselves. As a coach, I’m not sure I’d trust the combination of Tabs, Hogan, CamMac and Matera to organise themselves out of a wet paper bag, and I think we’re really lacking leadership in the forward line. I know the reflexive instinct is to blame the coach when three Freo players run to the same spot and fly for the same ball, but c’mon forwards, you’ve each been playing football for the better part of a decade, surely you don’t need a coach to tell you that’s a bad idea.

Walters has been in career best form as a midfielder floating forward this year, but he seems like the only forward with enough game-sense to get to the right spots these days, and a good enough kick to make things happen.

I think Lyon too often strays towards low-risk football, but sitting in the sheds at halftime away against Adelaide, with a pretty good track record this season of running out games, I can see why he thought we might be able to win an arm-wrestle if Adelaide dropped their intensity in the second half. He got that call wrong, but in a pretty even contest I’m not sure what the best alternative option was.

Anyway, just some random thoughts. I’d be keen to know what others think. Is there an option I'm missing? If there isn't, and given the success GC17 and Adelaide have had in gumming up the game, and how unsuccessful teams like North and the Footsdogs have been when the game has opened up, I can't see why opposition coaches (including Hardwick this week) wouldn't try the same.
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Flag_2005 said You Beaut

guy smiley Tactics 4 years 10 months ago #2

guy smiley
I'm gonna grind Shane down slowly with Talking Heads references and then, just when he's teetering on the edge and ready to lose the plot... I'll hit him with Dave Dobbyn.

Unplayable.
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rogerrocks, Raglan Matt said You Beaut

Morgan Tactics 4 years 10 months ago #3

Morgan
Obviously my tactic is to post long-winded stream of consciousness tactics posts to wear shane down.

For everyone else, I might start including executive summaries.
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CaptSnooze said You Beaut

Suker Tactics 4 years 10 months ago #4

Suker
Tactics? Thump both Crouch brothers and Sloane as well...early. Leave Tex, he thumps himself.
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guy smiley Tactics 4 years 10 months ago #5

guy smiley
Both Ricciuto and Pav were voluble in their praise of the standard of the game while it was being played. They thought it was top notch.

If those two are an indication of the thinking going on at the upper levels of the game then forget it. Nothing's going to change.

I made a frustrated comment at one stage about Tabs being consistently outnumbered with at least two playing on him. As I posted it, he was left in a one on one and took the mark. I think he shanked the kick though.

This is a pattern of the Lyon led Freo teams. Keep banging it into the fwd line, usually to the same target, often inaccurately and never change it up by putting another target down there to (and this is key)

make the opposition change what they're doing.

I don't think trying to reinvent the wheel is necessary here, Morgs. I think a few subtle changes during that game would have made Pyke change it up. Cam Mac was quiet... shift him into whatever it was Hogan was doing up the ground and have Hogan leading out away from Tabs. Force a match up.

Also, Ed Langdon runs really fast. He still kicks like Ray Chamberlain's moose.
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CaptSnooze, Flag_2005, DazzElle, Corporal Agarn, Suker said You Beaut

hypen Tactics 4 years 10 months ago #6

hypen
So the spare man in defence is a bit of a red herring in this instance. The starting point is transition and our set up around the contest.

Players were running to the boundary line on rebound transition - bringing the ball into the foward line this way is a dream for defenders as you really limit where the ball can go to. That's why McCarthy had a bad day he didn't have an opportunity to lead up. On our set up Fyfe, Mundy and Walters don't need blokes standing next to them they need spread at the ball. They need release options.

I'm asking at half time for Ed and co to look inside first. I'm asking my players not to be drawn to the contest and I'm telling my forwards it's okay if you get outmarked but play in front.
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The_Yeti, CaptSnooze, Raglan Matt, Suker said You Beaut

Drubbing Tactics 4 years 10 months ago #7

Drubbing
Methinks Pav and Rooshoot knew it was a dud, horrible contest, and did what all callers do - keep the interest levels up by talking crap.

I stopped watching. It was abysmal. It was like a really bad WWE superbrawl, where no one was allowed to wear silly clothes, trash talk or throw chairs at each other.
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Bizkit, shane, pollyanna, DazzElle, Corporal Agarn, Burton said You Beaut

Suker Tactics 4 years 10 months ago #8

Suker
Incorrect. Adelaide's jumper is very, very silly.
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Blue1red1, CaptSnooze said You Beaut

Raglan Matt Tactics 4 years 10 months ago #9

Raglan Matt
Morgan, our problem starts with the fact that the players don't seem to be allowed to organise things, otherwise yesterday would never have happened. Both coaches were too s..t scared to attack for fear of giving away goals, so they instructed players to make sure they either had a 100% safe option forward, or else go to the boundary. The only way to beat Pykes (or Lyon's) defensive tactics is to attack hard and fast. Sure the ball might rebound, but it will catch the opposition defenders doing what we get caught doing too often, running the wrong way and watching the ball go over their heads.
Your comment on Darcy is on the money, he has good reflexes and often gets down to a halved contest at a stoppage and is then able to get a quick, long handpass or kick out of congestion. He kicks for position without trying to find the perfect option and this will catch defenders out. For these tactics to work, players have to be moving all the time in the forward line, not waiting to see which of the safe options or boundary line the teammate will take.

Teams like the Hawks of a few years ago, Cats, eagles of a few years ago, Magpies, and Port of a few years ago have picked us apart because they go hard and fast forward when they get the footy. Even when they do go toward sthe boundary, they quickly bring it back infield to the open spaces that a teammate is running into.
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Morgan Tactics 4 years 10 months ago #10

Morgan
I think you’re on the right track Hypen and RM, but where a loose man is plonking himself 25 meters in front of the forwards centre-side, I can see why you are reluctant to kick it there (either planned or hacked forward): you would be outnumbered, the odds are against you winning the ball, and a turnover in that part of the ground is really costly.

Likewise, I agree you don’t want too many numbers at the ball, but if the other team is constantly getting 8 players there while you have 5, it doesn’t matter if your blokes are waiting for the release handball they aren’t going to get it very often.

I’m not saying that there’s nothing you can do, or there’s not a better way to organise a team, but both coaches (and occasionally the umpires) have a say on how the game is played. Where a team is hell-bent on getting numbers at and behind the ball, and the teams are evenly matched, I don’t think it’s as easy as people think to ‘break the game open’.

It seems to be the best way to beat a team in a scrap is to win the contest more than the other team, and when you do get enough players running forward that the ball-carrier has options besides a long-kick down the line; that way the loose defender is forced to choose between cutting off a lead, running at the ball handler or dropping back on the deep option. In fact, the best teams are ready to run forward on even the expectation of winning the hard ball (or in West Coast’s case, a free kick).

We were slightly shaded in the clearances by Adelaide, so running forward in numbers would have been foolish more often than not. That left our players often flat-footed outside the contest, the forwards would have had a hard time knowing when to lead, and our deep option became clumped together making life a little too easy for Crows defenders. The same thing seemed to happen the other way.

But if you aren’t winning the clearances, then your options dry up a bit.

I suspect Richmond will attempt to grind us down – despite being a high scoring team they have tended to play with blokes behind the ball and rely on rebound and forward pressure to score. Essendon the following week will probably try to open the game up. I just don’t think we’re a good enough team to impose our will against teams, and so what sort of game it is at the moment depends a lot on how the other team comes to play.
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rogerrocks, CaptSnooze said You Beaut

Yossarian Tactics 4 years 10 months ago #11

Yossarian
I reckon it was just a day that defenders from both teams played absolutely out of their skin. And well done to the lot of them. The next time these two teams meet it will probably be the forwards having a day out.
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goodie, CaptSnooze, finalport, Red Rooster said You Beaut

Raglan Matt Tactics 4 years 10 months ago #12

Raglan Matt
Running forward, Morgan is creating, not reacting. Opposition coaches love playing Freo because they know that we are not allowed to create. As for that bloke that stands at CHB and fills the space, put the footy on his head and let Hogan, Lobb, Darcy, Cammac & Tabs run at the ball. He won't be to keen to stand there next time. To do that legally, however these forwards have to be starting their leads from deep in the forward line, not running back with the flight of the footy.
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KingKepler Tactics 4 years 10 months ago #13

KingKepler
Fyfe tried pushing forward a bit more in the last quarter and I think this was a good move. I think it would have helped if we had tried it a bit earlier even if for 5 minutes or so at a time. It pushes the opposition coach to do something different especially if Fyfe gets on the end of one and kicks a goal. Mundy or Fyfe could have been used forward a bit more to try and snare us a goal or two when our other forwards weren't getting to the right spots.

We didn't switch the ball much to good effect when there weren't options presenting up the ground. Instead on most occasions we kicked it high to a stationary player in a contest in the hope of a mark or getting it over the boundary. I would have liked seeing us trying to link up a bit more on the open side of the ground and then bring it back into the middle. Yes there is a good chance we would turn it over on occasion but when you have only kicked 3 goals in 3 quarters surely you've got to try and run the ball by hand and foot a bit more?

Hawthorn were very good at playing against defensive teams by using the short kick and "keepies off' style of play and controlling possession. Then when the time was right they got it to a free player who could penetrate the forward fifty. Perhaps this is something we should give some thought to when moving the ball from one end of the ground to the other rather than just by sheer hard work? I would have like to see us control possession of the ball a bit more to get the Crows on the back foot. I'm not saying we should overuse the ball and do it this way all the time but when we are being smothered constantly surely you've got to find a way to keep possession once you have it. At least it would have got the crows thinking about a different way to defend.
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CaptSnooze, Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

CaptSnooze Tactics 4 years 10 months ago #14

CaptSnooze
An executive summary complete with Roman numerals is a good tactic against verbal flooding Morgan
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Blue1red1, Morgan, rogerrocks, Raglan Matt, teasea said You Beaut