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TOPIC: Scott

Raglan Matt Scott 5 years 4 weeks ago #29

Raglan Matt
Biz, he puts his body over the footy, players go high with their tackles on him, and he gets hit. He doesn't stage for them. Watch the way he plays a bit more closely this week.
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shane Scott 5 years 4 weeks ago #30

shane
I think he tries to get under people and gets hit in the head.

I don't recall him getting any free kicks for head high contact and I remember he was knocked out in the 2013 Grand Final without being given a free. If he is staging for free kicks he is terrible at it.
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rogerrocks, Noddy, Raglan Matt said You Beaut

rogerrocks Scott 5 years 4 weeks ago #31

rogerrocks
My thoughts exactly Shane - what can look like ducking is just him trying to avoid the tackler.
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shane Scott 5 years 4 weeks ago #32

shane
I'd also love to see some statistics on Aboriginal players who get free kicks for ducking v non-Aboriginal players.

There was a point in time when Aboriginal players were considered to have short fuses and be ill disciplined because they lashed out after finally hitting their breaking point when being subjected to racist taunts. The racist taunts being made because there was a belief that Aboriginal players had short fuse. In truth, they had some of the longest fuses of anyone.

I feel like there is still an attitude, and maybe it's just a small forward thing rather than a race thing, that an Aboriginal player who falls down after being hit in the head is staging for a free kick rather than having a sore head.

Lindsay Thomas was often considered a diver but if you actually watch how often he was hit high versus how often he went down and compared that to a Selwood, or many of the other white blokes who let themselves get hit in the head and then play dead, Thomas is barely worth mentioning.
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Raglan Matt, Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

rogerrocks Scott 5 years 4 weeks ago #33

rogerrocks
Its worth a study Shane. Get a lot of footage and turn the players into silhouettes so they can't be identified. Then go through the footage clinically looking for frees. Compare with actual frees paid, and see if there is any bias.
Send results to AFL. Watch results being ignored.
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shane said You Beaut

shane Scott 5 years 4 weeks ago #34

shane
Obviously I was just joking. There is no racial profiling in the AFL.
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Raglan Matt Scott 5 years 4 weeks ago #35

Raglan Matt
No, of course not.
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Morgan Scott 5 years 4 weeks ago #36

Morgan
Taggers aside, small forwards are probably the most loathsome opposition players on the ground. Most of them have an inherent sneakiness that make them very good, and very difficult to umpire. Also, when they inevitably stage for free kicks (like many other AFL players) the consequence is often a goal.

Walters puts his head over the ball, tries to duck under tackles, and is quite slight so when he gets hit the impact looks quite severe. I wouldn’t say he exaggerates contact more than most players, but I wouldn’t say he plays through contact either. So, while that’s all above board, I understand how an opposition fan (or even an umpire) might think that he’s a ducker who plays for free kicks because at the end of the day those things look very similar.

I subjectively feel like Walters gets fewer free kicks than players like Puopolo and Toby Greene, but statistically he gets twice as many as those blokes. That’s a crude measure, and maybe he should be getting even more than he does, but he does get, relatively, a lot of free kicks.
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rogerrocks said You Beaut

Raglan Matt Scott 5 years 4 weeks ago #37

Raglan Matt
Morgan, have you considered the possibility that, because he goes hard for the footy, because he does put his body on the line, and because opponents know they can often get away with hitting him high, he gets more free kicks. Have you looked at the statistic of how many times each of the players you mentioned, gets hit high as a percentage of how many free kicks they get?
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shane Scott 5 years 4 weeks ago #38

shane
Toby Greene was an odd choice but I would consider the difference in free kicks between the three as negligible. Walters has had a lot more since he started playing in the midfield, as you'd expect.

I would still put it to you that people are always quicker to decide the black players are divers than they are the white players. The white players more often than not 'very clever' at drawing the free kick.

It's a bit like the magic v works hard at his skills.
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Raglan Matt Scott 5 years 4 weeks ago #39

Raglan Matt
I thought Morgan did very well in picking Greene and Puopolo as examples to compare Walters against. Why did he not pick any of 3 Selwoods, Brent Harvey, Micheal Long, Wingard, Robbie Grey or Luke Shuey?
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Corporal Agarn Scott 5 years 4 weeks ago #40

Corporal Agarn
Don't like ducking at all but if you asked any casual observer from another club(besides Meth Coast)which Fraemantle player was inclined to duck i think the one and only answer you would get is Son Son.

There are different types of forward pocket players. Bruest, De Goey, Higgins for example don't seem to rely on drawing free kicks as much as some players do.
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Morgan Scott 5 years 4 weeks ago #41

Morgan
RM, I chose them because they are archetypal small forwards I dislike. Also they are very good, and like Walters push up the ground a bit (though probably not as much as Walters last season).

I wouldn’t have thought most of those players would be good comparisons, but Wingate and Grey are pretty close. Walters last season got way more free kicks than both of them on very similar possession numbers.

You could say he deserved more because he is more likely to put his head in the way of contact trying to win the ball, but an opposing fan would say he gets more free kicks because he puts his head in the way of contact trying to win a free kick.

That’s how it goes.
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Raglan Matt Scott 5 years 4 weeks ago #42

Raglan Matt
Why does he not throw his head back before contact, go to ground and stay there, argue with the ump when he doesn't get a free for acting?. He gets hit because he puts his body on the line, not because he is chasing free kicks. His eyes are on the ball, and the ball is his object, not the free kick.

As for the 2 players you used as examples, they are the 2 small forward/mids that the umpires are least likely to give a free kick too, and probably the least likely in the entire comp to receive frees because of the way they play. I used the players I used as examples, because they are the players noted by the media and supporters as stagers.
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