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TOPIC: Who now?

jimb2 Who now? 5 years 4 months ago #71

jimb2
What do you want the club to do, put out a statement that they were shuffling jobs getting rid of her and specify 10 reasons? Seriously?
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bpurple Who now? 5 years 4 months ago #72

bpurple
Many large organisations don't have in house HR departments anymore, maybe Freo are following this trend. If they are going to outsource this feature, then the HR managers role is no longer required. I have also seen HR managers removed from their positions for disputes with senior management or their particular management style. Basically if you **** enough people off senior to yourself or just in general you get to find a new job. Corporations are not democracies so they do not need to hold a consensus of opinion as to who stays and who goes. Like it or not our club is a corporate entity, just sayin.
Oh yeah, NDA's for HR managers of large and high profile companies are common, given they are privy to a lot of personal and sensitive information regarding individuals within organisations they work for.
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shane Who now? 5 years 4 months ago #73

shane
You really shouldn't have to work so hard to convince people that a football club is doing the right thing by people.
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The_Yeti said You Beaut

The_Yeti Who now? 5 years 4 months ago #74

The_Yeti
NDA's are common for HR managers?

Really? Since when?

Considering privacy legislation, which is more powerful and more encompassing than any NDA, and this would absolutely prevent any HR manager from revealing any personal details, you would have to wonder why any NDA is needed?

I guess the HR manager being made redundant shortly after presenting a negative assessment of somebody close to Roly is just sheer coincidence.

I'm still trying to figure out how removing a HR manager is going to improve our on field performance or provide better support for members and supporters as claimed by Rosich but I'm sure we can continue to pretend there are no holes in the club's justification......Again.

As for NDA's, they are generally only needed when somebody has something to hide and considering the huge amount of effort the club has put into trying to salvage some part of Roly's reputation, I'd be guessing it's the club and it Roly that has something to hide
Egurls Suck!
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Raglan Matt said You Beaut

Morgan Who now? 5 years 4 months ago #75

Morgan
I'm not sure why Freo would want an HR manager to be one of the most senior people at the club. Most of the expensive and crucial appointments are made on the football side, and I don't know how much the HR manager selects the coach or the players, for example. Even the salaries of those people would be managed - for cap purposes - by the Football Department.

It seems plausible to me that the CEO and admin decided that Horrocks and Pitts' roles could be organised differently, or done better by other people. That happens all the time. It puts people and organisations in a weird spot, where they don't really have grounds to sack people, nor is it a true redundancy. In those circumstances parties normally agree a commercial settlement, which is always attached to a confidentiality agreement. That's why the paper assumed there was one. We don't even know if there was. To further assume that it's because something dodgy happened is two adverse steps removed for any actual reporting.

The truth of the matter could be that Ms Horrocks was sacked because of something to do with Lyon's mate, or the culture generally. The truth could be that it had nothing to do with it. My question is: how differently would the story have been written by The West's court reporter if Horrocks left as part of a boring business reorganisation? It would read exactly the same, because that's what used to sell newspapers. My second question is if this story has been bubbling around, why did none of the footy reporters write it? Is it because they were scared of the consequences or knew there was nothing to it and didn't want their name attached? I have to admit, I don't know much about the author of this story, so it's hard to know how much stock to put in it.

So if someone wants to assume the absolute worst, that's their prerogative. But I think it's misguided to think that the worst possible reading of this story is the only one available.
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goodie, PhilGilbert said You Beaut

larkin Who now? 5 years 4 months ago #76

larkin
Morgan the world is approaching 'Peak Bulls*it'.
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point less said You Beaut

The_Yeti Who now? 5 years 4 months ago #77

The_Yeti
Again, Morgan, you ignore the absurdities put up by the 'nobody but Roly crowd' and go through all the contortions trying to cast doubt on people's assessment of the club's conduct.

You are suggesting that somebody who worked in HR at the club since 2011 and who's capacity would have been well known to the club, has an outstanding CV and record of achievement and was considered good enough in 2016 to be promoted to a General Manager's position has been sacked and that requires a confidentiality agreement because there weren't really grounds for that. All this after a clash triggered by a negative report on somebody close to Roly. Amazing coincidence, right?

Really?

You completely ignore the club's well established record of conduct in regards to said Roly. He committed a sustained act of sexual harassment against a junior female staff member that earlier this cost the club in excess of 100, 000 dollars. Thats not an insignificant sum and the sexual harassment would not have been insignificant to attract a settlement of that size.

The club has repeatedly come out in support of Roly, not his victim. Thats not conjecture, thats well established but somehow that isn't a factor you consider. The club trots out players at every opportunity to let us know 'what a great bloke' Roly is. Every player interview, member's meeting, press conference - it's all what a great bloke Roly is.

You don't see that from other clubs. No Simpson is great. No Hardwick is a great bloke. No Bucks is a great bloke. Only Roly. Mainly because their coaches aren't needing to try to claw back some reputation because of predatory conduct against junior staff. There is only one person in that position

But, you'd prefer to concoct some fanciful scenario that makes very little sense to divert attention from the club's conduct.

Which is really the most likely? Hint, its not going to be a case of somebody else is better at her job. Its just one more example of the club endorsing Roly to exclusion of common sense. Had you or I behaved in a manner that triggered at 100, 000 settlement, we'd be down at Centrelink but no, Roly is such a great bloke.

Bulldust!
Egurls Suck!
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purplepower said You Beaut

Morgan Who now? 5 years 4 months ago #78

Morgan
No-one is saying there's categorically nothing to these stories. Why? Because no-one knows for sure. This isn't an IPCC Report, or Maggie Haberman reporting on Trump. This is some guy at The West asking a couple of sources that used to be at Freo to chime in about an HR Manager departing. It's 'Bec Hewitt is pregnant' in New Idea level reporting.

It has nothing to do with the previously reported harassment. The story doesn't even explicitly attempt to connect them. It just says she was HR manager at the time. It does say her leaving might have something to do with a 'staffing issue' or 'HR feedback' which sounds a lot to me like stuff in the usual wheelhouse of an HR Manager.

But you do, however, seem very sure that every reported rumour is a fact, and that the worst possible interpretation is valid. At least as it's attributed to a failing of Lyon. I think it's a bit blinkered, and I'm not sure the WA media has earned trust on the way they report Freo issues, let alone this bloke who I've never seen report on Freo before.

Also, positive stories about the club and coach aren't a Freo thing. You just see them more because you support Freo. Every club has lousy puff pieces, and Comms teams have a hand in crafting these messages. Remember when the Eagles had a game report that said they won the last three quarters of a Derby, glossing over the fact Freo kicked the first 11 goals? It's lousy, and pervasive, and not in any way just Freo thing.
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rogerrocks said You Beaut

jusdoit Who now? 5 years 4 months ago #79

jusdoit
Yeti, could you please define what you mean by " a sustained act " . Was it over many hours/days/months. Or are you once again trying to make the whole situation a lot bigger than it really was?
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rogerrocks said You Beaut

The_Yeti Who now? 5 years 4 months ago #80

The_Yeti
Justdoit,

As has been reported in a large number of occasions, the harassment occurred over a period of hours to the point the junior staff member has to be removed from the situation by another female staff member.

Much as you Roly fans like to pretend he's really a great bloke, he isn't.

I would have thought that the 100, 000 compensation would clue most people in to the fact that the situation doesn't need to be made bigger. It's big enough on its own.

You don't pay out that much money for an off the cuff remark. Perhaps you should look at why people like yourself and Morgan continue to try to minimize his actions
Egurls Suck!
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Burton said You Beaut

Morgan Who now? 5 years 4 months ago #81

Morgan
You keep constructing these binaries yeti, that on the one side is the truth about Lyon that is there to see and it’s that he’s awful in every way, and there are people on the other side asserting Lyon is great bloke who is beyond reproach. Putting Jezza to the side, no-one is saying that latter. I don’t even think Jezza knows for sure Lyon is a great bloke (despite his inside information), and if he does it’s perhaps just a sense of misplaced loyalty on his part. For what it’s worth, I don’t think Jezza’s ‘everything is dandy’ optimism is any more deluded that your ‘everything is awful, burn it to the ground’ view of the club.

On the media reports of Lyon’s behaviour at the Christmas party three years ago he sounds like he is - or was being - a sleaze-ball. But in terms of minimising Lyon’s actions here, I still don’t understand what he had to do with the firing of an HR manager. Are you suggesting that Lyon (I would assume indirectly) had her sacked personally? Are you conflating events, even where The West didn’t? Or is his past alleged sleazy conduct three years ago (and as far as I can tell a one-off) being re-litigated because The West brought it up again in an unrelated story?

From where I’m sitting it seems that any information that portrays Lyon or the club negatively is taken at face value by many on this site. Any information that portrays Lyon or the club positively is rejected out of hand as being unreliable. It’s 2018 information siloing at its worst.

So while I don’t agree I’m trying to minimise Lyon’s actions, I do feel the need to stick up for the club. You might consider it misguided, but the reason I do is that I care about the club, and I care about Dockerland. This used to be a place that was a bit of a refuge from the incessant (and often baseless) attacks on the club from the WA media and Eagles-supporting idiots on talkback radio. It’s where people would at least consider whether the information presented by the media beared scrutiny, and might offer a different opinion. In that sense it was a refuge.

That same instinct can occasionally still be seen about stories about players: think how defensive some people are about stories about Bennell or how the media reacted to Johnno’s kebab shop incident, and how quick many were to contextualise it. But not only do people take negative stories/innuendo about Lyon or the club at face value, they take it a step further. I just think it’s a bit sad that this place, like so many others online, has become about the angriest voices in the mob.

In my view Lyon might be a creep, or at least likely has been on one occasion. He coaches too defensively. The club has at times be run a bit shoddily (the Starlight game was a fiasco). The CEO doesn’t share my values and I’d rather he left. But that doesn’t mean everything Lyon or the club does is terrible. The bad doesn’t completely invalidate any good. People, and organisations, are complex. I just think portraying Lyon (and even Rosich) as cartoonish villains without any redeeming qualities seems unnuanced and not supported by the facts.

I guess each to their own, but that’s why I feel the need to chime in.
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docbert, jusdoit, PhilGilbert, R.Lyon said You Beaut

Blue1red1 Who now? 5 years 4 months ago #82

Blue1red1
Belly is really clever. This has his fingerprints all over it, a cunning plan indeed.
You get rid of the HR Lady before the Staff Chrissy party and keep her safe and Lyon out of trouble.Tick
You then make Roly the new Head of HR as he spends most of his time in the office anyway.Tick
This frees up a coaching position which you fill and "wollah" instant on field performance improvement! Tick

I can't see how you folks have missed the bloody obvious!
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The_Yeti said You Beaut

The_Yeti Who now? 5 years 4 months ago #83

The_Yeti
What a complete load of bull, Morgan.

You've never done anything but attempt to belittle anybody criticizing either Roly or the club. The only difference between you and jezza is he is honest about it.

You however are not. You have never, on any occasion used your 'even handed approach' to examine the posts of the Roly supporters just the other side.

I've never suggested that Roly got the HR Manager sacked. That's another invention on your part.

What we both know what I actually said was the club has consistently supported Roly. They've done that to a degree that defies any logic. Anybody else behaving in that fashion would have been sacked as a result. I note that your 'even handed approach' tends to ignore realities like the club supporting Roly and not the person who was harassed.

Also there is no 'might' here. He did behave like a creep. The payout is testimony to that one, so let's desist with the continued minimization.

I don't need to characterize Roly as a cartoonish villain, not when he's a genuine one
Egurls Suck!
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darthmarto Who now? 5 years 4 months ago #84

darthmarto
Payouts are often a reflection of the severity of what occurred. They're also often a reflection of the economics involved in defending an action and a heap of other considerations, including the desire of one party to keep it out of the public spotlight. It cannot be used as some linear scale to determine the severity of an action.

People leave organisations all the time for a myriad of reasons. I work for a fairly large organisation that deals with what many would consider to be pretty full-on stuff. Some days people wander in, decide they've hit their tipping point, go and buy a kombi and spend the rest of their days hanging out on beaches, sleeping in car-parks, eating baked beans on toast and travelling Australia and probably having a great old time.

Kids get terminally ill and the parents reassess where and how they're spending their time. People have epiphanies and suddenly feel they've wasted their entire working lives and can't do it for a single moment longer.

To point to a fluffy story about Freo's HR manager leaving and deciding it's some symptom of Ross being some malignant workplace womanising serial creep is heading toward tin foil hat territory.

We're way short of facts here and filling in gaps with supposition galore.
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jimb2, rogerrocks, PhilGilbert, Suker, BL134 R15 S15 said You Beaut