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TOPIC: Hogan requests trade !!

Noddy Hogan requests trade !! 5 years 6 months ago #127

Noddy
Slow as molasses......you mean like Paul Hasebly or Barramundy slow?
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mac Hogan requests trade !! 5 years 6 months ago #128

mac
Cox had several impressive moments. As a twenty year old he will improve his body work and smarts in contests.
Tabs is a example of a player who owned his job early this year. Shame he got sidelined.
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The_Yeti, Suker said You Beaut

Morgan Hogan requests trade !! 5 years 6 months ago #129

Morgan
Players can overcome being slow. Hase and Mundy are good examples. But those two excelled at a part of the game that happens while players are more or less stationary. They were also exceptionally talented at reading the play and delivering the ball to open players.

As a CHF/CHB, it is helpful to be able to create space against your opponent, or close that space as a defender. Cox has done a good job to build his tank so that he can run all day, but his closing speed is not great. I think that limits him as a backman. I suppose he could play the Johnno role, but Johnno was one of the best in the league in sizing up the outlet pass. I'm not sure Cox is there yet, or ever will be.

As a forward he can get on his bike and push up and down the ground to get himself some space to take the mark, but he's never going to be a leading forward. Again, he could be very useful with the right set-up, but he has limitations.

Put another way, is there a facet of the game that you consider Cox to be superior to Hogan? Cox showed glimpses, but when Hogan was 20 he was kicking 2.2 a game and won the Rising Star on a Melbourne team that was worse than Freo this year.
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Flag_2005 said You Beaut

Mushroom Hogan requests trade !! 5 years 6 months ago #130

Mushroom
I am firmly of the opinion that Cox becoming a leading forward is possible and this, added to his stay-at-home pack marking skills, would see him become a superstar forward of the game.

Encourging a set-up and delivery system to enable this would be awesome.

If it's Hogan doing said delivery one one out of four kicks (the other three being goal himself, inboard pass to M.Walters and one down the line in front of McCarthy), then all the better.
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Raglan Matt, freo00 said You Beaut

The_Yeti Hogan requests trade !! 5 years 6 months ago #131

The_Yeti
I'm not sure you can have Cox and Hogan in the same side. Hogan would have the role closer to goal, Tabs and McCarthy would have the more mobile roles across half forward.

That's said, Cox, Tabs and McCarthy all need to practice their goal kicking. It's all very well to compare goals per game for players but when you are having shots on goal and missing, that doesn't show up in the goals per game stat.

Had they kicked straighter over the last few seasons, perhaps they'd be further up the list.
Egurls Suck!
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Detox Hogan requests trade !! 5 years 6 months ago #132

Detox
Cox is probably about as slow as McGovern and he can catch the ball. I can see him playing a similar role although Luke Ryan is pretty good at it and can kick the ball better than Cox. Be nice if Cox could be like Westoff play forward and late in quarters or when a team gets a run on go back and mark the ball in defence.
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Raglan Matt Hogan requests trade !! 5 years 6 months ago #133

Raglan Matt
I would play Cox at the top of the 50, give him the job of providing a target for our midfield when they are under pressure. All he has to do then is mark or bring the ball to ground. Walters and co will do the rest. He is no value however, marking the footy on the wing or at half back, nor for that matter is Tabs.
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rogerrocks Hogan requests trade !! 5 years 6 months ago #134

rogerrocks
RM, just in case you hadn't noticed, Josh Kennedy and particularly Jack Darling played a big part getting WC back into the GF by taking marks just outside their defensive 50m arc. You might hanker for the old days, but just about no one in the AFL is allowed to be a stay at home forward any more.
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shane Hogan requests trade !! 5 years 6 months ago #135

shane
I think that's being a bit clever.

Very few people think the full forward should stand int he goal square for the day just like very few people think there should be a constant flooding of players around the ball. It's a scale not a binary choice.

The general complaint is that Fremantle lean too far towards putting the players around the ball and not far enough towards having forwards ready in place when the ball arrives.
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ghq, The_Yeti, Bizkit, DougGreen said You Beaut

Rhufus Hogan requests trade !! 5 years 6 months ago #136

Rhufus
Morgan I may not have explained my sentiment too well. I agree with you.
I believe it is essential that we get Hogan. He has pace, smarts and can kick. He can play forward and further midfield like this year. He is a WA boy. We have to get him, regardless of all those players. This is our Kennedy/Judd moment.

A spine of full back Pearce, Centre half back Hamling, centre Fyfe, centre half forward Tabener and full forward Hogan is a skeleton that you can put some meat on and build a premiership team around. In fact that spine rivals the Toasts spine. In two years time when Hurn and Kennedy are old men that spine beats the Eagles.

My point is we actually have a whole stack of players to trade/delist if this happens because I cant see a forward line of Hogan, Tabs, Cox and McCarthy with the resting ruckman as well, working terribly well. At least our long bombs into the forward line might have some chance now!
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Morgan, rogerrocks, CaptSnooze said You Beaut

Jason Hogan requests trade !! 5 years 6 months ago #137

Jason
Yeti, Lyon’s done pretty well with pick 58 from 2011 - plus you can throw in APearce, Ryan, Tabs, Blakely & Langdon as players who have performed at an elite level exclusively under Lyon’s tutorage. I’d also point out that Darcy, Cox, Nyhuis, Cerra, Brayshaw, Banfield and imports Hamling & Wilson seem to be going ok as well.

Or have all these players shone through despite having Lyon as coach??
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rogerrocks, Jezza said You Beaut

Corporal Agarn Hogan requests trade !! 5 years 6 months ago #138

Corporal Agarn
Ffs Jezza can't you just make a comment without making yourself into a sycpohantic Roly lover.

We got that years ago so how about you just stick with the comments and give the rest a break.
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slammen said You Beaut

shane Hogan requests trade !! 5 years 6 months ago #139

shane
Those comments are spot on and they remind me of the time that Ross Lyon laid down the law to a young Clancee McSwalters who was having trouble with inner city gangs at the time. We're truly lucky to have snared not just the best coach in the league but one of the best people in football and I'll be there in 2020 standing proud and tall as Ross holds the cup up high.
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Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

The_Yeti Hogan requests trade !! 5 years 6 months ago #140

The_Yeti
You can say that, Jason, or you can temper your remarks with a dose of reality.

Lyon's handling of Taberner has actually restricted his development and that has been an ongoing issue on here for some years. Remember when he refused to play Tabs alongside Pav? I remember that. I remember because Lyon's game plan only allowed for one tall forward because he needed extra players behind the ball. You can go back through people's posting history to read up on that one.

Still, I wouldn't ever make the claim that any of PearceA, Ryan, Tabs, Blakely or Langdon were playing at the 'elite' level. Pearce A is very good as is Ryan. Tabs is pretty good but none of them would ever be classed as elite at this stage of their careers.

Yet I also observe you fail to mention those players that clearly haven't done so well. Barlow and de Boer spring to mind. Also look at Stephen Hill. We had an A grade outside mid before Lyon tried to turn him into a not so good inside mid and then as a half back flanker.

As for Hamling and Wilson, I made the same observation myself in another thread.

On top of all that, how can you know that all of these players may not have done better under another coach? You can't know that but what you can know is that Lyon tries to make players into other than what they are on many occasions rather than using them to their best advantage and that is often unsuccessful
Egurls Suck!
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snoop, freo00, themagoos, Burton said You Beaut