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Rebuilding Myth Busting

TOPIC: Rebuilding Myth Busting

The_Yeti Rebuilding Myth Busting 5 years 7 months ago #29

The_Yeti
Morgan, lets actually discuss what I did say instead of you making up stuff to disagree with.

I said we cannot complain about any so called advantages that other teams have when we are managing ourselves poorly, If you want to attract players, then you need to make the place attractive to them.

To do that, you need to be well managed. It means you don't do stupid stuff like suddenly turn over 50% of your list in 3 years as a well managed team renews their list a bit at a time to stay at the top. You don't need to be in Melbourne to manage list renewal.

Sydney don't bottom out for years on end. Adelaide and Port Adelaide are generally in the mix. Adelaide's current problems are entirely self inflicted, which adds to the point I'm making. The egurls have the same travel burden we do, yet are consistently out performing us.

Hawthorn don't attract players because they are in Melbourne. There are 7 other teams in Victoria, 6 based in Melbourne. Norths, Bulldogs, St Kilda are all having trouble attracting players and they are all based in Melbourne and all play at the MCG. They don't attract players because they are not well run clubs. The Hawks can attract players because they are well managed and well coached.

Your point that Hawthorn attracts players because they are in Melbourne in demonstrably wrong.

As for Lynch, why would he want to come to a bottom 6 club when he can play with a team that can contend for a flag? Thats the difference
Egurls Suck!
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Raglan Matt, freo00, Burton said You Beaut

Drubbing Rebuilding Myth Busting 5 years 7 months ago #30

Drubbing
You don't hear WC whinge about these things. They have the same recruitment and travel issues.

They talked rebuild briefly a couple of years ago, anticipating a bad year. But it didn't happen, so they quickly went back to talking up finals and another prem tilt...
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The_Yeti said You Beaut

rogerrocks Rebuilding Myth Busting 5 years 7 months ago #31

rogerrocks
Yeti, North, Bulldogs and St Kilda don't get to play at the MCG very much at all, do they? Carlton get to play there a bit more, I imagine, but their home ground is Etihad. But if we just take this season, the the teams that at least have some of their home games at the MCG, Richmond, Collingwood, Hawthorn, Melbourne and Essendon are on average much more successful than the Etihad based teams.
Now maybe its just that the AFL moved the teams it hated to Etihad. Who knows.
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The_Yeti Rebuilding Myth Busting 5 years 7 months ago #32

The_Yeti
rr,

I don't think you're correct about the MCG. They play home games at Etihad for the most part but they still play plenty on the MCG, especially compared to us. But my point being that playing on the MCG isn't what attracts free agents to your club as was suggested.

The teams that were more successful this season were more successful for other reasons than playing on the MCG. Hawthorn has been successful for ages. Richmond, Collingwood, Melbourne and Essendon have been building for a while and its no surprise that they are finally getting some success.

I'll tell you what none have done and thats gone into a frenzied list turnover like we did. Even Essendon, who were forced into a major rebuild by the drugs scandal never hit the list turnover levels we hit. Hawthorn, under their current regime, have done rebuilds by stealth almost, one bit at at time.

I disagreed with the suggestion that playing at the MCG has anything to do with rebuilding. The disadvantages we face revolve around the travel burden. Not playing at the MCG might impact you if you reach the Grand Final with no MCG games during the year but as Optus has the same dimensions almost, that should be reduced.

The other disadvantage we face is our own management and I've explained that more than once.

Sure if you're based in Melbourne and travel less its a bonus but the slime have won 3 flags with the same travel burden. Same for Adelaide, Port, Sydney.

We need to stop accepting poor performances on and off the field and then making excuses about how much easier it is for other sides. We make it harder for ourselves than anything else.
Egurls Suck!
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freo00, Burton said You Beaut

Lazerith Rebuilding Myth Busting 5 years 7 months ago #33

Lazerith
When the the highest paid person at the club (RL) is given rope to put in a couple of years like we’ve just seen , change must be made.
Embarrassing pressers about how no one can rebuild in under 5yrs when clearly they can is enough for me to leave my favourite Dockers hat in the wardrobe and start sporting my plain black one.
He is making us fools by association, not copping due criticism and laughing all the way to the bank, whilst I’m out of pocket $25 for a new hat!
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The_Yeti, Bizkit, pollyanna, DazzElle, freo00, Burton said You Beaut

The_Yeti Rebuilding Myth Busting 5 years 7 months ago #34

The_Yeti
Lazerith,

that made me laugh. Sorry about your hat situation.

I still wear my Freo gear. I'm such a nut for the club that probably half my wardrobe is Freo gear as well as most of my hats. I still have my old Sharks hat though. If I stopped wearing my Freo gear, I'd probably be naked by Wednesday most weeks and nobody needs that.

Hang in there and when times change, people will know you were there' before' they got better.
Egurls Suck!
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freo00 said You Beaut

Morgan Rebuilding Myth Busting 5 years 7 months ago #35

Morgan
Yeti, it is very possible for someone growing up poor and attending a public school to be successful, it is just objectively less likely than someone who grew up with rich parents and attending a fancy private school. You can argue that the largest determinant of success is the decisions of the individual, but that only tells part of the story. The rich kid just has a greater margin for error.

Likewise, Collingwood have missed the last three finals series, made it through this year, and are in the market for the biggest free agent in the class. They were already getting classy players as free agents and were a requested trade partner while they were missing the finals.

Freo were in a strong position, having made finals regularly, and couldn't get a Lynch-type to save their lives. You can retrospectively attribute that to bad management if you like, but we had a top 4 team and a sack of cash to spend. That seems like reasonable management to me. If we had one more decent key forward in 2013 we might have won a premiership. Hawthorn just needed one decent full back and ruckman to round out their list, and they walked through the front door. If the game was played at Subi we might have won.

I know you think that institutional advantages are 'better management, pure and simple', but isn't it at least possible to acknowledge that some clubs have a greater margin for error than others? Unless you think we have pure equality, then isn't this an uncontroversial statement?

I think it was Marx who predicted the establishment of a classless football league constituted by a free association of equal clubs. I just never predicted this footballing socio-economic emancipation would be so effortlessly implemented by man who calls in favours for his polo-playing mate’s au pairs.

It seems unlikely to me.
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goodie, rogerrocks said You Beaut

The_Yeti Rebuilding Myth Busting 5 years 7 months ago #36

The_Yeti
Morgan,

say what you like but I'm of the view you can't complain about other clubs getting a leg up when your club is consistently underperforming. We've made the Grand Final once. We've missed the finals more than we've played in them.

Players want success. Getting to one Grand Final doesn't make you a successful club. You have to be there or thereabouts for an extended period to be come an attractive club for talent.

Your reference to rich kids and public schools is completely unrelated to this situation. Sure some clubs have more money but there are equalisations in place for money from the AFL. Added to which, Freo turns a profit each year. You yourself said 'a sackful of money', so there is no difference in the margin of error.

If you want to attract free agent talent, you have to show they are a reasonable chance to have success at your club. Peaking every 5 0r 10 years and then crashing to the bottom of the ladder to 'rebuild, restump, rewire' just says flaky. Cash won't get you the kind of player you want. Cash will gets Jack Anthony's and Colin Sylvia's. Success will get the Hogans, Lynchs, Franklins and Camerons of this world
Egurls Suck!
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Corporal Agarn, freo00 said You Beaut

Raglan Matt Rebuilding Myth Busting 5 years 7 months ago #37

Raglan Matt
Hawthorn work out during each season what thir weak spot for the next 3-4 years could be and recruit/draft to fix it. They have a footy admin that are good at reading where the game is going in those 3-4 years, rather than believing they can make the game go where they want it to go. A lesson for us, Bulldogs and a few other clubs.
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guy smiley Rebuilding Myth Busting 5 years 7 months ago #38

guy smiley
Nahhh...

each and every coach and club are trying to work out how to get ahead of the game, not how to follow it. Hawthorn just have a really good football department and coach. Clarkson's tactical nous is matched by his ability to get the best out of players. The club do a very good job of recruiting good players and he puts them where they can best perform, basically.

Hardwick has built a team that concedes first use a lot knowing they'll force turnover and use that really well. In that sense he's doing something similar to RoLy was in 2013 in defending everywhere aggressively. They're just really good at it week in, week out.

Both of those two examples are setting the pace, not waiting for it.
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Hamihill Rebuilding Myth Busting 5 years 7 months ago #39

Hamihill
It’s on now
Best coaches teams draft picks home ground advantage no travel.....
Congested garbage
The poor umps don’t know what to do
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The_Yeti Rebuilding Myth Busting 5 years 7 months ago #40

The_Yeti
Don't know what to do?

What happened to plan A: free kick weak coast

...oh, wait
Egurls Suck!
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Hamihill Rebuilding Myth Busting 5 years 7 months ago #41

Hamihill
Open goal scoring bonanza from the premiership players team and coaches
Let’s get these blokes on board
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Hamihill Rebuilding Myth Busting 5 years 7 months ago #42

Hamihill
Let’s hope they outscore Freos last game
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