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Ladder This Year v Last Year

TOPIC: Ladder This Year v Last Year

jimb2 Ladder This Year v Last Year 5 years 8 months ago #1

jimb2


Unlike 98% of the grumpy people around here I rate this year as a positive. This year we ditched a bunch of experienced players and maintained our table position playing the youngest side in the league.

How good this lot will be with another 50 games in them is the big question. Ask me in few years.
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Jezza Ladder This Year v Last Year 5 years 8 months ago #2

Jezza
The 2012-2015 era was our time to shine and failed. 2019 will be our fourth year since our demise. What I’ll say is, should the Slime fail to win the premiership this year, and I hope they don’t, can we start calling Simmo, Roly’s clone. A coached with GF appearances but no cigar.
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Corporal Agarn Ladder This Year v Last Year 5 years 8 months ago #3

Corporal Agarn
We're not actually the youngest side in the league.

www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&...PhhHnqWmzBBp2Ti2YnIg
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Bizkit said You Beaut

Jezza Ladder This Year v Last Year 5 years 8 months ago #4

Jezza
Age alone is not the story here. Games played is where you’ll find our “babes in the woods” story. That’s the inexperience we have to fast track and we know us DL are a bunch of impatient citizens.
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KingKepler Ladder This Year v Last Year 5 years 8 months ago #5

KingKepler
Hawthorn continues to be the blueprint.

They have lost more experienced players than us since 2015.
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The_Yeti said You Beaut

Leed Ladder This Year v Last Year 5 years 8 months ago #6

Leed
C'mon Corporal you know that there are three kinds of lies. Let's see, let's subtract Johnson, Pearce and Spurr from that list and we are now 23.225 years. Take Sandilands, Mundy and Ballantyne off next year and our average age will be about 12.
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Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

shane Ladder This Year v Last Year 5 years 8 months ago #7

shane
On that trend line, jimb2, they will be exactly the same with 50 games in them.
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Derby12 said You Beaut

Drubbing Ladder This Year v Last Year 5 years 8 months ago #8

Drubbing
Please, do bang on about age and experience, and then explain how that relates to a side that is coached in such a way, that both a 3x Premiership player and a Brownlow medallist and experienced others, can end up playing like mashed crabs?
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The_Yeti, pollyanna, DazzElle, Raglan Matt, Burton said You Beaut

jimb2 Ladder This Year v Last Year 5 years 8 months ago #9

jimb2
Agarn, using the average list age is not actually a good measure. Players will improve enormously in their first 100 games and, while they can certainly improve, they will make relatively small gains after that. There is a curve. By 100 games, they're probably physically pretty close to peak, should have got to close to their potential in basic skills. They do seem to me to gain strategic nous as long as they play. Averaging 200+ gamers with 10 gamers gives a number that would only be worth worth knowing if the progress is linear, which it simply isn't.

In addition, the stats you quote are using the team average, not starting lineups. Freo went for a youth policy this year. There was a fair bit of grumbling about playing old guys who weren't going to be around in the future. The downside of youth is of course some big losses. I'm ok with that, but it is a choice that the team management has to make.

I think using the average median games played of the actual starting lineups for each game (not the players on the list) is a much more realistic measure and we were the youngest team on that stat.

Mean v Median if you're interested.
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Jezza said You Beaut

Walter the baker Ladder This Year v Last Year 5 years 8 months ago #10

Walter the baker
Please explain. If this is such an indicator, how come Richmond is younger and less experience than Freo but sit on to of the ladder?
Maybe they have ten rookie listed 14 year olds on the list to bring down the averages?
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Jezza Ladder This Year v Last Year 5 years 8 months ago #11

Jezza
WTB, Rich have not debuted 8 youngsters in any season let alone 2018. In the last 2 years we’ve debuted more youngsters than Richmond but it’s pointless arguing that fact. Season is over. Let’s just see if we can recruit well.
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jimb2 Ladder This Year v Last Year 5 years 8 months ago #12

jimb2
KK

They may have lost more mature players but they could do that and still have a mature list. Hawthorn have done a great job of managing their list. If you hadn't noticed, they have had such a great list over the last few years that they have been able to have players in the system for a few years fixing faults and teaching them the system before they even played them. Imaging having Cerra on the list for a couple of years before he plays in the firsts. You may have also noticed they were able (and willing) to jettison great players who had been great servants of the club. I think you'll find they are also the most preferred destination club for quality free agent players who want a premiership medal while they can still get it, which also helps a lot. This is a result of ongoing list management from a decade or even longer ago. There is no quick fix available. Sorry.

Hawthorn now have a mature playing group. They dipped when they had to work out what to without Sam Mitchell and Luke Hodge running through the centre.

I'll repost that list of average median games played in starting lineups this year. Have a look.

119 WCE
113 Port Adelaide
106 Hawthorn
94 Richmond
90 Adelaide
87 North
87 GWS
80 Sydney
78 Essendon
71 Gold Coast
71 Collingwood
70 St Kilda
68 Brisbane
65 Geelong
59 Melbourne
56 Carlton
56 Bulldogs
51 Fremantle
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Corporal Agarn Ladder This Year v Last Year 5 years 8 months ago #13

Corporal Agarn
Somebody put up a more relevant age list a couple of weeks ago but i can't find it and yes we were one of the younger lists playing.

I think at that stage Collingwood were playing a very young list and so were NM. Now they've obviously done way better than we have and are their rebuilds aren't taking six years.

GC, Carlton and SK look terrible but even so St Kilda only finished half a percentage point less than us.

How do you compare Brisbane and WB to us though?

If you take WB first, they won a GF in 2016 compared to our 2013. They have also had big injury problems and had a younger playing list than us but they finished above us and one percentage point higher. Is their rebuild progressing better and quicker than ours?

As for Brisbane, they only won five games but they had a very large thirteen percentage point differential to us. Their average losing margin at home was about 20 pts. They also have as young or younger list than us so are they progressing better than us?
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jimb2 said You Beaut

jimb2 Ladder This Year v Last Year 5 years 8 months ago #14

jimb2
A mature list certainly doesn't guarantee a premiership but it's close to a prerequisite. The great performers on the maturity list this years are Collingwood and Melbourne. We are doing ok, but not at the business end of the ladder.
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