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TOPIC: List Management vs Sports Science vs Coaches

purple kit List Management vs Sports Science vs Coaches 5 years 8 months ago #1

purple kit
There has been a lot of discussion about the state of our team list, the rebuild and the coach of late.

In an attempt to analyse/decipher what is going on at the club to explain last weekends loss and our performance overall in 2018 and what the future may look like, I have assembled what I believe our best team looks like, looking at our age make-up for the upcoming season (2019) and number of games played (2018). In the team list below the numbers in the brackets are (age at start of 2019 season, games played in 2018). as this is also looking ahead, I have not included our 3 confirmed retirees Spurr, Pearce & Johnson.

Fremantle
B Ryan Nyhuis (22,8) Joel Hamling (25, 17) Luke Ryan (23, 20)
HB Nathan Wilson (26, 20) Alex Pearce (23,20) Connor Blakely (22, 13)
C Bradley Hill (25, 9) David Mundy (33, 21) Stephen Hill (28, 13)
HF Michael Walters (28, 18) Brennan Cox (20, 15) Harley Bennell (26, 0)
F Cam McCarthy (23, 16) Matt Taberner (25, 8) Hayden Ballantyne (31,16)
FOL Aaron Sandilands (36, 11) Nat Fyfe (27, 14) Lachie Neale (25, 21)
B Sean Darcy (20, 6) Ed Langdon (23, 20) Adam Cerra (19, 20) Andrew Brayshaw (19, 17)

B-mantle
B Cameron Sutcliffe (26, 4) Griffin Logue (19, 0) Ethan Hughes (24, 4)
HB Shane Kersten (25, 8) Taylin Duman (19, 9) Darcy Tucker (22, 16)
C Tommy Sheridan (25,12) Bailey Banfield (21, 20) Stefan Giro (19, 10)
HF Sam Switkowski (21, 1) Hugh Dixon (20, 0) Brady Grey (23, 3)
F Brandon Matera (26, 18) Michael Apeness (24, 5) Luke Strnadica (21, 0)
FOL Scott Jones (23, 5) Tom North (20, 0) Mitchell Crowden (19, 9)
B Lloyd Meek (20, 0) TBA TBA TBA

As a list assessment, I think that starting 22 looks pretty good, with a good combination of speed, power and contested ball winning both aerially and on the deck. If we could play that team regularly we would definitely be pushing for a top 8 spot and i wouldn't put a top 4 spot out of reach. Here lies the issue though, in 2018 we only averaged playing 14.7 players from that 22 each week, meaning we were forced to play around 7 players from the B-mantle team every week, that is approximately a 3rd of our team every week not being our first choice.
There are some deficiencies in our list though, the fact that Balla still gets the nod ahead of Matera (and hence we have just signed him on for another year) is a massive slap in the face for Lloyd.
Once Johnno retires there is no back-up for Alex Pearce at all, our tallest back-up defender is Duman at 193cm who would get eaten by some of the power forwards of the comp.
Nyhuis gets the nod ahead of some others because he is the only "lock down" small/medium defender we have (interested fact, we've won 5 of the 8 games he's played this year),
There is still no Genuine power forward, however with the form of Tabs, development of Cox and having Dixon, Apeness and Strnadica waiting in the wings we have no shortage of options there (although for some reason we still went into some games with Cam Mac as our sole target up forward which just made my mind boggle, however I cannot put that on LLoyd)
The inability to get Zac Clark back on the ground and his subsequent de-listing seemed to send the spreadsheets flying and they made a massive overcorrection by bringing in two more ruckmen in Jones & Meek, so now we have 4 x 200cm+ Ruck or Ruck/forwards who cannot get a game in the big league (again when injury hit I am not sure why Strnadica didn't get a call up to share the ruck duties).
In the midfield we lack depth in having strong bodied mids. Fyfe and Blakely provide most of our grunt in the contests and the tackling of Brayshaw has been a revelation. without insulting him because he's had a great debut year, the fact that Banfield has played 20 games when he has clearly been struggling in the last month of so says more about our lack of options than his form. This leads me to believe the axing of Barlow et all at the end of 2016 was more of a knee jerk reaction than forward planning.

overall though I think, as stated earlier, that our best 22 looks good. IMHO the biggest problem with our list is that we can't get them on the ground regularly enough. There are numerous examples, however the aforementioned Zac Clark, who apparently has made a miraculous recovery under the watchful eye of a WAFL clubs medical team, is one of the most damning. seconded only by the fact we sent Brad Hill back out onto the ground in round 2 after he had apparently only bruised his knee which turned out to be a 10 week injury, Stephen Hills ongoing Quad injuries and of course the entire Bennell fiasco has me thinking that our biggest issues are in our fitness staff which as has been mentioned by others has been an ongoing issue dating back to the Harvey years and is possibly the most damning blot on the Bond regime.

That and signing Ross on for 5 years!

I have run out of time but the point is, If we were to clear out the entire football dept. and brought in a medical team that could keep our best players on the ground. Then I reckon a coach with an attacking flare could get this team competitive by this time next year.
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demo1, hypen, Morgan, Dockermus, Derby12, freo00, Rhufus, R.Lyon said You Beaut

Rhufus List Management vs Sports Science vs Coaches 5 years 8 months ago #2

Rhufus
Pretty good summary and I agree with most of it. Only problem is that forward line WAS playing at Simmonds (bar Bennell) and we kicked 5 points in 3 quarters of footy.
But youre right, with the right game plan and a new Medical team we could rapidly improve. I dont think our list is as bad as it looked last weekend.
Two things that are glaringly obvious to me for about 5 years, our excessive injury rate and our excessive free kick differentials from the umps. Both issues have not been addressed as far as I can tell. And yes, there should have been a full scale investigation into why Freo is always on the losing end of the free kick count in just about every match Ive ever watched and they should have come up with a way to help mitigate it. I can think of at least 5 ways to help but I dont see them doing anything.
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Raglan Matt said You Beaut

Raglan Matt List Management vs Sports Science vs Coaches 5 years 8 months ago #3

Raglan Matt
I would put Tabs to CHF, Mundy to FF, Blakely to the guts, Langdon to half back, and manage Cox, giving him time at FF switching with Mundy, Cox is only 20 next year and still developing as a player.

Blakely is the player we need in the middle getting the ball out to our runners, the way Hazelby used to open the game up for us, and he is also strong overhead in the same way Hase was (tall for his height?) and Langdon/S Hill can easily be switched if needed.
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goodie List Management vs Sports Science vs Coaches 5 years 8 months ago #4

goodie
The first 13 or 14 are good but it falls away pretty badly after that. And then when you start adding injuries we are left playing blokes that are not afl level. Depth is a serious problem (amongst a myriad of them).
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Corporal Agarn, R.Lyon said You Beaut

hypen List Management vs Sports Science vs Coaches 5 years 8 months ago #5

hypen
I think in order to have "sustained success" you need all cylinders of the engine firing: list management, development, coaching and conditioning.

I think we are failing across those areas for a while now and it's caught up with us. To that end the criticism of Lyon is unfair - there is a heck of a lot outside his scope not working.

But his patch is looking crap too.
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Morgan, Derby12, Corporal Agarn, Rhufus said You Beaut

rogerrocks List Management vs Sports Science vs Coaches 5 years 8 months ago #6

rogerrocks
Is Gray a possible small forward? He'd certainly be good at applying forward pressure.
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Raglan Matt List Management vs Sports Science vs Coaches 5 years 8 months ago #7

Raglan Matt
Hypen, development, coaching and conditioning, I would think all 3 of these come under his watch, and if he is not directly managing them, and they are not doing their jobs properly, he should be changing them, or demanding change from them.
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DazzElle said You Beaut

shane List Management vs Sports Science vs Coaches 5 years 8 months ago #8

shane
Morgan will correct me on this but presumably it is under someone's scope.
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Rhufus said You Beaut

Raglan Matt List Management vs Sports Science vs Coaches 5 years 8 months ago #9

Raglan Matt
Shane, that earlier photo of Mundy with Lyon, Mundy may have been investigating whether Lyon was eating all the lunches from the 3 departments, it's reasonably obvious he wasn't doing anything else while he was there.
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Morgan List Management vs Sports Science vs Coaches 5 years 8 months ago #10

Morgan
Not sure Shane. I’ve always been curious about what modern head coaches do. It seems the football department hands all of the fitness and injury stuff to sport science, the skills to the development and specialist coaches, the motivation to the psychologists, the structures to the line coaches, the list management to the managers, the discipline to the leadership group and the match selection to the selection committee. All that seems left is oversight on how these things hang together and yelling on the phone during game day. All that added up to 8 wins in our case.

As an aside, I was curious about the 2009 team that, until this week, held the title of most embarrassing Freo loss. Here’s who lined up against Adelaide when we went down 130-13

B: Greg Broughton, Chris Tarrant, Nick Suban
HB: Antoni Grover, Steven Dodd, Paul Duffield
C: Matt de Boer, Paul Hasleby, Brett Peake
HF: Stephen Hill, Scott Thornton, Dean Solomon
F: Hayden Ballantyne, Luke McPharlin, Ryan Murphy
Fol: Zac Clarke, Byron Schammer, David Mundy

I/C: Garrick Ibbotson, Clayton Hinkley, Kepler Bradley, Tim Ruffles

Doubtless they missed the quality of Pav and Sandi that night, but there are some highly skilled and high-character players on that team, headed by a good coach. What probably isn’t apparent on paper is how young some of those blokes were. Guys like MdB, Suban and Ballas were all in their first year.

Our top end is ok at the moment, but our depth is currently really poor. We can’t sustain injuries at even a normal level, and my sense is we have been above league-average for time lost to injuries, although some of that is self-inflicted (recruiting Bennell for example, relying on Sandi).

But that doesn’t necessarily mean we don’t have players currently in the squad who will become capable role players. MdB was probably a liability that night, but a few years later was a wonderful role player (and still is). In addition to bringing in talent, one of our best chances for improvement is that some of our young rookie types develop into useful players.

I don’t think things are as dire as people are making out.
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hypen List Management vs Sports Science vs Coaches 5 years 8 months ago #11

hypen
Things are very dire Morgan, if you accept the premise that there are many departments failing including the coaching department.

Where I was leading to in my earlier post is that Bond is every bit as culpable as Lyon is : Lloyd, Lyon, Webber and who knows who else report into him, I believe.
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The_Yeti said You Beaut

shane List Management vs Sports Science vs Coaches 5 years 8 months ago #12

shane
You're always comparing things to previous worsts, as if the benchmark is record breaking failure.

That 2009 game we were missing Matthew Pavlich, Michael Johnson, Aaron Sandilands, Des Headland, Roger Hayden, Ryan Crowley, Chris Mayne and Rhys Palmer. I imagine a few of ones out there were carrying injuries.

That's a pretty All Australian heavy list.
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Bizkit, Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

The_Yeti List Management vs Sports Science vs Coaches 5 years 8 months ago #13

The_Yeti
Exactly right, hypen.

The funny thing when Bond was being criticised earlier the same people who like to disagree with everybody else were saying it wasn't Bond's fault. Now they are saying it's not Roly's fault.

Apparently, our list management, conditioning, medical and coaching departments are all underperforming but you know that it's nobody's fault. Imagine getting paid all that moolah to deliver terrible results but you don't have to be accountable. Wish my job was that cushy but then again, i'm judged on results.

You're at fault though if you dare criticise.
Egurls Suck!
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Raglan Matt, Corporal Agarn, freo00, Burton said You Beaut

rogerrocks List Management vs Sports Science vs Coaches 5 years 8 months ago #14

rogerrocks
I think Morgan's point was that you need to look at the people common to both those losses, Ballantyne and Mundy. It is clear that they are jinxed, and shouldn't be allowed to play any more.

But Shane, whilst you can list the injured outs from back then, we can do the same for now. S Hill, Sandi, Brayshaw, Hamling and Ryan.
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