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TOPIC: Voluntary Red Card

Morgan Voluntary Red Card 5 years 8 months ago #1

Morgan
There has been a bit of talk about red cards again since The Gaff Assault. I can see the merit in umpires being able to send off a player, but my concern is that it would only be a matter of time before the rule was incorrectly applied by an overzealous umpire. That said, it was farcical that Adam Simpson kept sending Gaff out there – I think Simpon's actions were reckless (and borderline negligent) and endangered not only Gaff, but the rest of the players on the field. Simpson has gone down a peg or two in my estimation after his handling of game day and post-game interviews.

There’s a recurring theme that you can’t leave it up to coaches to act in the best interests of the game, so how do you incentivise coaches to do the right thing in these circumstances, without giving the umpires the chance to stuff it up?

My half-baked idea is that when a player commits an ‘aggravated offence’ on the field, the coach and the player involved decide whether to voluntarily shut down that player for the rest of the game, with their decision factoring into the ultimate suspension. So, using Gaff as an example, Simpson could decide whether to send Gaff down to the showers. If he does, Gaff gets a week reduced from his penalty at the tribunal – having served some of that time in-game already and having left his team a player short. If he doesn’t, the Tribunal can add a week to Gaff’s suspension for putting the other players at risk of a melee by going back out there.

Obviously there are a few things to work through before this becomes a fully-baked idea. For example, what is the criteria for an 'aggravated offence'? My view is it would only be for the most blatant, deliberate offences – the ones a red card would be applied to. My first thought is that perhaps the fourth umpire (or video umpire) could notify the coach of an ‘aggravated offence’ and instruct them to make the call whether to send them to the locker room. You’d also need to have some rules about timing (ie, the consequences are different if the act occurs in the first five minutes rather than the last).

Thoughts?
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rogerrocks, Raglan Matt said You Beaut

Mike Voluntary Red Card 5 years 8 months ago #2

Mike
This makes sense and is a good idea, but you have overlooked the fact that you are a decent human being and not, for example, a member of the West Coast coaching panel.
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Alvin Prpl said You Beaut

blockerhall Voluntary Red Card 5 years 8 months ago #3

blockerhall
I, too, found it inconceivable that Simpson kept sending Gaff out, they were 50 points up, game over, it was like red rag to a bull.
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Derby12 said You Beaut

finalport Voluntary Red Card 5 years 8 months ago #4

finalport
Agree about Simpson. What he did was inflammatory. Clearly, from the images, Gaff did not want to return.

As for the red card suggestion, it's interesting , but I'm sure other Dockerlanders will have a view on its practicality.
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Freo66 Voluntary Red Card 5 years 8 months ago #5

Freo66
A quick way to solve half these issues is a 2 match ban for every punch regardless of how forceful it is.

Implement from round 21 and watch the punching stop.

If this had been in place none of this may have ever happened but agree in your idea Morgan.
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Raglan Matt said You Beaut

shane Voluntary Red Card 5 years 8 months ago #6

shane
Traditionally you'd take the player off and let everything cool down but players don't king hit players behind the ball anymore so it probably didn't occur to Simpson that there was an issue.

I'm not sure there was anyway.No one was ever going to hurt Gaff more than the rules allow.
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Dockermus Voluntary Red Card 5 years 8 months ago #7

Dockermus
There's one or two things that need to be sorted before a red card system is introduced.
For starters, the competition is crying out for truly professional, high standard umpires, to remove the perceived bias, favouritism or unnecessary supporter scrutiny that currently exists, by ensuring umpire appointments are 100% impartial - a WA based umpire should never umpire games involving either WA team, for instance. This is a no-brainer, and common practice in, say, the English Premier League. I wouldn't trust the AFL's current crop of part-timers to make these kind of game-changing decisions, without some form of professional peer review of performance and sanction.
Secondly, the differences between Aussie Rules and say, soccer, ought to be considered. Soccer is a shorter game, played without an interchange. Accordingly, a red card has a greater impact on a team. A red-carded soccer player will often face criticism for 'having let his team mates down'. For instance, David Beckham foolishly retaliated against an Argentinan player in the 1998 World Cup and got himself sent off, for which he was publicly and mercilessly condemned. He even received threats.
The justification for bringing a red card system into Aussie Rules should be a focus on the need to redress the unfair disadvantage a team can suffer when a player is taken off after being purposefully injured by an opponent. And no, I don't buy the Gaff spin that he really only meant to push AB in the chest. With his fist. It was a deliberate and calculating action, which left Freo one man short for around a half of the game. The umpires should have been able to ensure that the Egulls also lost a player - Gaff. It's only fair.
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guy smiley Voluntary Red Card 5 years 8 months ago #8

guy smiley
Voluntary anything will never work.

If something like this was seriously mooted then you need the AFL to completely change character and work within strict guidelines with no grey areas, so rules would need changing for a start. High contact? Punching? At the moment there's too much interpretation around what a player might have been trying to do. Just ban it, then penalise it hard. That would soon stop the practises you're concerned about.

As for a RC scenario... there's already zillionteen cameras recording the games. Why not follow the lead of other codes and have yet another official responsible for scrutinising the footage and advising the field umpire if action needs to be taken. They're all mic'd up to each other, it wouldn't be hard to manage the tech. The Foxsports coverage had footage of the Gaff crime within seconds. He could have been red carded straight away.
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Raglan Matt said You Beaut

Drubbing Voluntary Red Card 5 years 8 months ago #9

Drubbing
I don't think the idea has got out of the mixing bowl. You can't leave infringements decision up to coaches. Being West Coast, in no time at all, they'd work on drills to make an incident look like aggravated offence, to try and force the opposition coach to hobble his team. They lie and cheat on and off the field, which is now seen by all.

I don't know why a Red card isn't worth discussing, if the boundaries of use are clearly defined, and perhaps adjudicated by the video ump, not the bloke with the adrenaline-fuelled whistle. But you can see the issue right there with anything the AFL makes a rule about.

Having yesterday behind us, I still feel Gaff's penalty isn't enough. If the AFL charge allowed for a penalty of 8-12 weeks, they are saying there is an incident and outcome worse than this, that warrants another 4 weeks. What would that have been - a player in a coma, with brain damage, or a paraplegic? Gleeson said it was a 'historically significant event', and then handed a penalty that wasn't.

If the AFL is going to set up a pseudo court, with lawyers and stuff. Serious incidents should warrant serious consequences. for all the media coverage, 8 weeks suspension for serious bodily harm is a crock.

Fiddling with the ball in cricket warrants worse, apparently. Some would say crickets standards are archaic. You could say the same of the AFL, for the opposite reason.
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Dockerplus, snoop said You Beaut

Morgan Voluntary Red Card 5 years 8 months ago #10

Morgan
The problem you've identified Drubbing is more pronounced with a red card. Players would be trying to con the ump, and their decision would be final. If you put the decision in the hands of the player/coach, they get to decide whether they think there was enough in it to warrant putting their player on ice. The penalty for them not icing the player, if any, is only made in the cool light of another day.

The harsher penalty option would likely never be used, but would be a consideration. The 'time-served' aspect would mean there was a benefit to icing the player beyond risk mitigation and common decency (which should be enough).

There are currently two imperfect options being canvased: the currant arrangement, which leads to farcical scenes once a year, or a red card, which might alleviate some farcical scenes, but might be just as likely to lead to others.

Giving the coaches an incentive to do the right thing might be a middle path.
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hypen Voluntary Red Card 5 years 8 months ago #11

hypen
By giving the coach decision making power you are compromising the process. Taking a player off will be seen as an admission of guilt. Never do it.

You're asking a coach to perform a role that is part of their scope of work.

Simpson thought he didn't mean to do it.
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Dockerplus Voluntary Red Card 5 years 8 months ago #12

Dockerplus
“Simpson thought he didn’t mean to do it” and then in his presser said the action didn’t seem intentional. The nisbett man said the same; gaffe didn’t intend to strike. The adulatory behaviour of the crowd was inflammatory ( though it seems the replay of the action wasn’t shown at the ground ). Shirley the images must’ve been shown to the wc coaching staff at 3/4 time and still Simpson didn’t act on it and kept sending gaffe out onto the ground as if to incite the Freo players though the score line showed the game was over by then anyway. That was irresponsible coaching.
So I’m not sure whether all coaches could be asked to take on the responsibility to sideline one of their players voluntarily.
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cookie Voluntary Red Card 5 years 8 months ago #13

cookie
The currant arrangement is definitely raisin issues
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Corporal Agarn Voluntary Red Card 5 years 8 months ago #14

Corporal Agarn
I think it would have to involve some sort of video review system. You can't trust the coaches. The only problem is that there are already many disagreements with the MRP plus they can't get a decent goal review video system. Plenty of work to be done.
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