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TOPIC: brutal elbow

Morgan brutal elbow 5 years 10 months ago #57

Morgan
For the record, I thought Fyfe was unlucky. Then, as now, the 'intentional' grading seemed like a bit of a reach to me.
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rogerrocks brutal elbow 5 years 10 months ago #58

rogerrocks
And you'll find that I didn't think Fyfe's was intentional - just an instinctive split second reaction.
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shane brutal elbow 5 years 10 months ago #59

shane
I think they'd be better with terms like Fault and Limited Fault.
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Grub said You Beaut

freo00 brutal elbow 5 years 10 months ago #60

freo00
I think that Jeremy Cameron might not have intended to hit Harris Andrews and hurt him but he didn't care if he did !

I think he was trying to hurt someone - anyone , didn't care who .
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hypen, Mercury, Raglan Matt said You Beaut

rogerrocks brutal elbow 5 years 10 months ago #61

rogerrocks
Which is careless, or I suppose reckless if your actions are highly likely to result in injury. But intentional implies that you had a goal of hitting them.
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FDB brutal elbow 5 years 10 months ago #62

FDB
Dare I say it, but as much as I hate the overcomplexity of the MRP/Tribunal grading system, think removing "reckless" was a mistake. Keeping it would mean:

1) Accidental:
Player had no knowledge that contact would occur. No case to answer.

B) Careless:
Player hurt someone by doing something okay, but going in a bit too hard. Penalty depends on harm caused and player's record

iii) Reckless:
Player hurt someone by doing something likely to cause harm, but still within play, and going in way too hard, for example with elbows at head hight and full speed. Penalty contingent as above. (This has Cameron stuffed for 4 weeks minimum.)

Four) Intentional:
Player deliberately whacks someone, whether in play or not. ANYTHING behind play should be graded intentional, because that's what it is. Same contingencies for the penalty.

IMO cutting reckless out just means everything gravitates towards careless if intent can't be proven. Which it rarely can in on-ball incidents, short of an actual roundhouse punch.

Shorter me: There needs to be a way of describing what Cameron did that sounds a bit more serious than temporarily misplacing your keys.
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Morgan, rogerrocks said You Beaut

Grub brutal elbow 5 years 10 months ago #63

Grub
Nick Pane QC appearing for the AwFL. Whilst Cameron’s top man (he has gone with Rob O’Neill) will see right through him, it’s all about the vibe and I’m picking a 6 week penalty.
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The_Yeti brutal elbow 5 years 10 months ago #64

The_Yeti
FDB,

The grading system was 'simplified' by removing reckless and having a choice of careless or intentional. Its pretty easy to see that 'simplifying' the system has actually complicated that aspect of grading because if its more than careless, you have to run with intentional.

You don't need to be a genius to see the problems with that approach.

In this particular case, Cameron has not been charged with rough conduct, which could be caused by being careless but he's been charged with striking. Its hard to make a case for careless when you strike somebody.

The biggest problem with the grading system isn't just the large gap between careless and intentional but the refusal of the AFL to allow either the MRO or the tribunal to be bound by precedent. The same offence can result in wildly different outcomes but it does allow the AFL to achieve a desired outcome.

When you have an organisation with a financial interest that isn't bound by previous conduct, you will continue to have a perfect storm of confusion and arbitrary outcomes.

In my opinion, you need both a more flexible grading system and precedent to apply, even if that precedent is only a season by season system.
Egurls Suck!
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Raglan Matt, freo00 said You Beaut

shane brutal elbow 5 years 10 months ago #65

shane
How did they manage to stretch it out for an hour and a half? Even Bob Dylan would consider that a long winded defence.
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The_Yeti, hypen, Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

freo00 brutal elbow 5 years 10 months ago #66

freo00
The Tribunal has found Jeremy Cameron GUILTY of intentionally striking Harris Andrews.

Nick Pane QC submits that a minimum sanction of six matches should be appropriate.

Rob O'Neill submits that a sanction of four matches should be appropriate.

The Tribunal will now deliberate on Cameron's penalty.

Jeremy Cameron has been suspended for FIVE weeks.
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The_Yeti brutal elbow 5 years 10 months ago #67

The_Yeti
The panel deliberated longer than the evidence presentation
Egurls Suck!
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Walter the baker brutal elbow 5 years 10 months ago #68

Walter the baker
Classic. One wants 6 weeks, the other wants 4 weeks .... let’s split the diff and call it 5 weeks and we all go home.
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The_Yeti, shane, freo00 said You Beaut

larkin brutal elbow 5 years 10 months ago #69

larkin
Duty of care means just that – I would hope. If a player regularly hurts someone deliberately (outside of the rules) or is too unco to control his(her) actions then they shouldn't play the game.
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The_Yeti, hypen, Raglan Matt said You Beaut

The_Yeti brutal elbow 5 years 10 months ago #70

The_Yeti
Cameron has an incredible history in relation to offences.

People have a go at Ballantyne for the way he 'behaves' but Cameron has racked over a dozen convictions and about the same number of weeks suspended.

Well past time that he got the message. Elbowing a bloke hard enough to give him bleeding from the brain and getting 5 weeks just isn't right. With his records it should have been substantially longer in my view
Egurls Suck!
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Raglan Matt, freo00 said You Beaut