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TOPIC: Hypothetical Coach Trade

The_Yeti Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 3 weeks ago #113

The_Yeti
Stacks,

the worry is that against a better side, we would have lost and if we ever want to win a flag, its the better sides that we will have to play and win.

Still, if we continue to miss easy kicks and easy shots on goal, we have plenty of Ass Coaches we can play the blame game with.

I'm starting to think I should be the coach. For a start I'd be cheaper and willing to accept responsibility, so I'm already way in front. I'd also tell forwards to stay forward and I'd get them to practice their bloody kicking and not just for 20 minutes.
Egurls Suck!
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Raglan Matt said You Beaut

Rhufus Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 3 weeks ago #114

Rhufus
Not withstanding the horrendous display of goal kicking on the weekend, which to be honest can just happen and is not really a hall mark of the Dockers, I think we are actually now on the right track.
What has been a hallmark of the Dockers, selecting courageous honest tryers who give their all but may not be elite in skill levels, happily seems to be changing with the evidence of the more recent drafting.

Compare the kicking of Tommy, Cameron Sutcliffe, D Pearce coming out of the back line with Blakely, Hill, Ryan and Wilson and we now finally, maybe just fortuitously? have got a group that can kick. These guys have the confidence to kick it up the guts and go forward, Ryans creativity is breathtaking for such a youngster in his second year.

My comments earlier were more to do with lack of composure in front of goal as opposed to just poor kicking on the day. Composure can be coached, was my point. At least Roly mentioned it in his presser, maybe he is on to it now?
We can only hope.

As much as anyone says anything on this forum, Bond wont get rid of Roly as he selected him in the first place so Im finding it kind of a moot point to wonder if we should trade him in. One thing I would say, there are no other coaches in my opinion (other than Clarkson) who are DEFINITELY better than Roly. Im tending to just join Jezza and read everything half full, what more can we do?!!
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purplepower Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 3 weeks ago #115

purplepower
To give such a long contract on a million dollars + was a reckless decision and you need to be accountable for that......the only way to justify such decision is to deliver
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DazzElle, Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

Ricco Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 3 weeks ago #116

Ricco
On skills.....

Over the course of a players career, their skills must improve. If you could measure skills on a scale of 0-100, my guess is that an average player would go from say 70 -85 over the course of their career. There is no disputing that they improve.

(As a disclaimer, some players probably go from say 50-75, others from say 75-80).

If the coaches aren’t responsible for this improvement both in magnitude and rate, then who is?

Also, as a kid I used to do martial arts. Whenever I fought a more skilled opponent, no matter how hard I tried I could never beat them. And that was often.

In my professional career, the people that aren’t that good at their job seem to work harder.

Talk about effort is only relevant when focused on building skill. And the person responsible for building skills is the coach
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The_Yeti Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 3 weeks ago #117

The_Yeti
Rhufus,

I kind of agree. Lyon has stated often he doesn't coach skills he coaches effort. Thats fine as far as it goes but a skillful team of hard workers will usually beat a team of hard workers. Its not rocket science and its also not a mutually exclusive set of options. If you are responsible for a the team development the you are responsible for all of it not just the bits that you value.

I do agree Clarkson is a better coach, in spite of Jezza writing him off as lucky.

Friendly advice, never go the full Jezza. I learned that watching Robert Downey Jnr or something.

purplepower, agreed. You accept the pay, you accept the authority then you accept the accountability that goes with it. Its simple
Egurls Suck!
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Rhufus said You Beaut

Flag_2005 Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 3 weeks ago #118

Flag_2005
I'm not saying the head coach isn't accountable and I'm not sure that others are either. If he gets to the end of season 2018 and we finish with 5 or 6 wins and no signs of improvement he'll be justifiably nervous about his future. We're 3 games into 2018. We got flogged by Port in a game where we turned the ball over repeatedly and got belted in the midfield. We beat the Bombers and we beat the Suns and, sure, we should have beaten them by more but I really don't get the negativity.
The complaint about there being no forwards in Ross Lyon's game plan is not borne out if you watched the last two games where, as it turned out, we won the contested ball and weren't relying on having to get the ball back off the opposition to go forward and score. When we do have to do that (as was the case against Port Adelaide) we don't have a forward inside the forward 50 for long periods. Funnily enough, neither does any other side in the comp faced with the same problem.
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Hamihill Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 3 weeks ago #119

Hamihill
History shows that most most interstate coaches are no good at winning a GF
Coincidence
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Drubbing Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 3 weeks ago #120

Drubbing
Not really. That would be more to do with the higher workload required of travelling teams.

To win a GF as a travelling side, you need to be clearly XX% better than the rest of the comp. Very hard to separate a lot of the top teams, so travelling is a disadvantage.

As for the skills vs effort argument, I'm pretty sure every coach coaches effort too. Would be remiss not to. Same with skills...
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FDB Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 3 weeks ago #121

FDB
Players improve their skills with practice, of course. But if you've made it to AFL level and are 20-odd years old, that process is pretty much over.

I reckon any apparent skills improvement from then on is really just improved fitness and strength, improved decision-making, and knowing the limitations of your skills so you look for other options than the 80m torp for goal.

All those things are coachable.
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Noddy Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 3 weeks ago #122

Noddy
Lots of things are able to be coached, but the execution of what’s coached is another story. Ie. 44 x many variables.
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The_Yeti Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 3 weeks ago #123

The_Yeti
Wow there is some real nonsense being posted on here to excuse poor performances from the Messiah.

If skills are not something that needs to be practiced then every elite athlete is simply wasting their time actually practicing them. Try telling any Olympian just to concentrate on their fitness and not their skills and to a man (or woman) they will inform you that you are being stupid.

Elite athletes the world over constantly practice their skills,seemingly except at Freo. I have personally been involved in a swimming club where swimmers were being coached for national competitions and their training isn't just swimming up and down the pool. Their techniques are practiced over and over and over. Olympic swimmers do the same.

The old saying is use it or lose it.

Suggesting that practicing skills isn't needed when you reach AFL level is absurd. You can dress a pig in lipstick all you want but at the end of the day, its still a pig.
Egurls Suck!
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Raglan Matt said You Beaut

cookie Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 3 weeks ago #124

cookie
Of course skills are coached, or should be coached, but importantly in a team game, as opposed to the swimmer analogy, it's the interaction of those skills with your team mates that is crucial. In other words, the game plan. I get frustrated with turnovers, and simple misses - who doesn't..! But more frustratingly is the sometimes apparent lack of a plan, but then at other times it all seems to gel and we see examples of lovely quick ball movement where skills and a plan merge together. I do think that some improvements in back line personnel and the quality of the clearing kick from defensive 50 getting better is a positive, and I also think that the improvement in Tabs (a lot of it confidence I think) and McCarthy taking giant steps this year are all good signs.

As for Lyon, I certainly don't think he is the Messiah, but I also don't think he's a very naughty boy.
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Raglan Matt Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 3 weeks ago #125

Raglan Matt
If he's got the boys doing laps, sprints and beep tests, instead of practicing kicking to a teammate and kicking for goal, he definitely is not the messiah, and he is a very naughty boy.
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Noddy Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 3 weeks ago #126

Noddy
Yes, quite a bit of nonsense. There’s not a lot of evidence being put forward to support the view that skills, including kicking aren’t in the training regime.
I’ve been to half a dozen training sessions and witnessed high intensity drills including ....surprise, surprise ....kicking da footy, pressure kicking to spot up a team mate, in close handball etc etc.
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