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TOPIC: Hypothetical Coach Trade

Morgan Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #1

Morgan
There has been a lot of discussion on here about whether Lyon is a good coach, and whether he is the man to oversee a rebuild of the team (if those things are different). The contract offered from Docker HQ suggests he is highly rated there, but there is no shortage of vocal critics on Dockerland. I personally find coaching very hard to evaluate, because unlike players you can never see their performance directly; rather you need to infer it from the performance of the players on the field. So, in assessing the coach, you need to first make an assessment of how much they have achieved with the team at their disposal, which is an incredibly subjective exercise in itself.

Also, there is no guarantee that a coach's replacement will be better than Lyon. If you considered Lyon to be a middle-of-the-road coach, there is a 50% chance his replacement will be worse. Most new coaches are untried head coaches so they are hard to assess, but what about the current cohort of league coaches? Which of them do you consider would do better with our current Freo squad than Lyon?

Coaches can’t be traded, but it got me to thinking about who I would trade Lyon for out of the current crop of coaches. I’ve ranked the coaches based on a hypothetical (and vaguely ridiculous) situation where the President of another club called Docker HQ with a deal for a straight-swap for coaches.

"Start the car"

Alastair Clarkson – probably has cemented his place as the best coach in the game with Hawthorn’s premiership run, and 10 wins in a transition year last year was a solid result.

I want to say yes, but let me sleep on it

Chris Scott – took the Cats to a flag when people thought they were done, and has overseen a pretty successful restump at Geelong. Has some history at Freo. Misses out on Start the Car status for his theatrical reactions in the box, which in the grand scheme of things is a pretty minor flaw.

John Longmire – He has won a premiership and his teams have consistently been successful, but I can’t help but think some of that can be attributed to Sydney’s excellent academy picks and free agent acquisitions assisted by the COLA.

On the fence

Ken Hinkley – Gets points for getting Port to play an attacking style of footy, but has copped a lot of grief internally and from Port fans for consistently underachieving against the top teams and in finals. I suspect we’ll know a lot more about Hinkley after this year having been given the keys to a stacked team. I’d have him a hair above Lyon, but mostly based on aesthetics of game style.

Luke Beveridge – He took the Footsdogs to a flag, and seems like a cool guy, but if you take 4 weeks of inspired football out of the equation, has he been a better coach than Lyon? I’d say no. Lyon got Freo to consistent top 4 finishes whereas the Footsdogs have never cracked the top 4. Had Freo played anyone other than Hawthorn in the 2013 GF Lyon would have a flag, so if that’s the only difference it’s a tough call.

Damien Hardwick – Similar to Beveridge, nothing about Hardwick’s coaching career screams to me that he’s an elite coach, but he did get his team a flag. Could he do that at Freo without 16 games at home and a cushy home ground run in the finals? Maybe, maybe not. I can’t say for sure he’s a better coach than Lyon so I would probably stand pat.

Don Pyke – Has got his team to a GF where, like Freo, they fell flat against the home team. His teams score a lot more than Freo ever has, but has probably had a more balanced list, with plenty of forward options. I’d want to see another season or two from Pyke before pulling the trigger.

"Umm, thanks, but no thanks"

John Worsfold – honest plonker at best. Dishonest plonker at worst.

Simon Goodwin – nothing in this bloke’s history screams ‘good guy’, and nothing about Melbourne’s performances to date suggest he’s any better than Lyon.

Adam Simpson – Chickengate aside, he seems like a good guy and the players seem to relate to him, but I can’t see much in his coaching career to suggest he’s a top-flight coach.

*Hangs up phone*

Brad Scott – the Whingeboner in Chief never misses an opportunity to complain. Tough gig coaching North, but isn’t very highly rated by North fans I know.

Nathan Buckley – if he was anyone other than Nathan Buckley he would have been gone years ago.

Leon Cameron – An U18s coach at the helm of one of the most talented squads ever put together. Perhaps he gets judged harshly for the growing pains of a team of budding superstars, but I can’t say he’d be in my first 10 or 20 choices to coach a Freo team currently with much less talent.

Alan Richardson – Tough gig coaching the rebuilding Saints, but it doesn’t look like they are going anywhere.

"Can you please call again in a couple of years?"

Chris Fagan
Brendan Bolton
Stewart Dew


So, I’d probably pull the trigger on a trade for 4-5 other coaches. Given our relative status in the league, I reckon we could do worse.
The topic has been locked.
goodie, 2ndknuckle said You Beaut

Quasimodo Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #2

Quasimodo
I’d have him at about 6 or 7. Clarkson is the stand out his record speaks for itself. Longmire has managed sustained success. Geelong Scott also has sustained success and premierships. Beveridge and Hardwick have won flags Lyon hasn’t. Hinkley is probably a touch lower as he hasn’t coached in a GF and Lyon has.

Outside the AFL coaches I rate Chocko Williams and Jarrod Schofield as better coaches than Lyon. I hope Schofield gets a chance in the AFL system as what he has done with Subiaco over the past few years has been brilliant, he allows players to play to their strengths in a strong team culture and coaches an attacking style, and develops youth well. I hope we get him to coach us at some stage.
The topic has been locked.
The_Yeti said You Beaut

pollyanna Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #3

pollyanna
Nope. The coach's performance is very visible on game day - how adaptive he is to the evolving challenges the team faces on the day. This isn't a case of what your perspectve is either - it is very clear and becomes clearer week by week.
The topic has been locked.
The_Yeti, Bizkit, DazzElle said You Beaut

purplepower Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #4

purplepower
I'm just wandering if Ross is the highest paid coach AFL
The topic has been locked.

Quasimodo Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #5

Quasimodo
If he is, he shouldn’t be.
The topic has been locked.

Morgan Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #6

Morgan
I used to think that Polly, but almost every coach in every sport says that in-game tactical changes are wildly overvalued by fans and the media, and probably account for only a very small part of a coach's job.
The topic has been locked.

Yossarian Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #7

Yossarian
I don't know that much about coaching and all that malarkey - but I would like to see some eagles heads explode.
For that reason alone - I call ............. Lyon Out, Woosha In.
The topic has been locked.

Jezza Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #8

Jezza
Great post Morgan. But I can only go on past players and how they’ve viewed Lyon as a coach. I consider that, direct from the horses mouth. So, under no circumstances is Roly on the trade table. The players knows best.
The topic has been locked.
goodie, Noddy said You Beaut

Drubbing Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #9

Drubbing
Lyon had his favourites at St Kilda, Riewoldt the most vocal. The Freo players are paid to stay on message.

I think it was clear Lyon had the whole squad in his corner in 2012-3. I doubt that now.
The topic has been locked.

shane Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #10

shane
Morgan used to think that, Polly, but then coaches started selling the idea that they were so important that the public couldn't possibly understand their job and he believed them because they are some of the most upfront and honest people in sport.
The topic has been locked.
The_Yeti, Bizkit, pollyanna, Raglan Matt said You Beaut

thegeniusthatis Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #11

thegeniusthatis
Absolutely no coach ever connected to the Toilet.
Chocko or Stewart Dew for mine.
The topic has been locked.
pollyanna said You Beaut

Walter the baker Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #12

Walter the baker
I’d be just as interested in looking at list mangers as coaches. While I rate Clarkson, he has been able to rely on a steady flow of very good cattle. The Hawks manage to get in very good players then make them better because of the class that surrounds them.
The topic has been locked.
goodie, jimb2 said You Beaut

Corporal Agarn Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #13

Corporal Agarn
Well there has to be some sort of skill involved in that WTB because a lot of clubs trade in players but don't reap the rewards that Hawthorn do.
The topic has been locked.
The_Yeti said You Beaut

Mike Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #14

Mike
One thing that is lacking in all of them is the ability to publicly articulate a coherent set of social values, by which I mean we don't have a Gregg Popovich or an Arsène Wenger. I expect that some of them are able to do this very well within the confines of their clubrooms, and in part this deficiency is as much a reflection on the general ineptitude of the media here as anything else. For a lot of people, the extent to which this 'matters' may also be debatable, but it seems to me that as a society, whether it is right to do so or not, we spend a fair bit of time looking to the sporting world for guidance in our everyday lives, and when coaches are trained to 'handle the media' instead of answering questions, or when 'the best' coach is also the one whose team has consistently played outside the rules since he took the reins, well, it's a missed opportunity.
The topic has been locked.
Nodgey, rogerrocks, Suker said You Beaut