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TOPIC: Port vs Swans

purple kit Port vs Swans 6 years 1 month ago #15

purple kit
Whatever Clarko does or says seems to be working, looking good at half time against premiership favourites the cats. Hawks will play finals again this year so by my reckoning they’ve had a 1 year rebuild, having missed the finals last year.
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The_Yeti Port vs Swans 6 years 1 month ago #16

The_Yeti
I disagree WTB.

The game plan is the sum of the processes that are trained for prior to and during the season. It can and usually does include set plays. Its basically how the team goes about setting up and how we play the game.

ie. How we set up to defend a kick out from goal. How we setup at a centre bounce. So that everybody knows what they should do and what others are going to do.

One of the features of what we train for is how we deliver into the forward 50. Go to training and watch. We practice long kicks to the top of the square. Doing that occasionally can work, doing only that usually doesn't. Saturday was a case in point. In the first half around 80% of the high kicks to the top of the square were intercepted and went back out. I counted 4 occasions when we kicked to a target and all 4 resulted in goals. It was one of the major differences between the Essendon and Port games. We had 3 marks inside 50 for the first game and 5 before half time against Essendon. Different approach gave different results.

Watch the two games again and watch how in the second we clearly looked for targets inside 50. Not all the time but a lot more in the second
Egurls Suck!
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Blue1red1 said You Beaut

Noddy Port vs Swans 6 years 1 month ago #17

Noddy
We’ve advanced a bit from the game plan era which involved a steak and a smoke before players went to the game and the plan was to knock out the oppositions best player.
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Blue1red1, The_Yeti, Raglan Matt, Corporal Agarn, Suker said You Beaut

Raglan Matt Port vs Swans 6 years 1 month ago #18

Raglan Matt
My argument exactly Yeti, Clarkson tells his players to give the ball to the player in the best position to give it to a teammate or kick a goal, he doesn't tell them to wait until their teammates have got themselves into what he thinks is the best position to give it to a teammate or kick a goal.

The theory is, it is easier to kick a goal from 10 yards out dead in front, (Max Gawn is an exception to this theory ), but the reality is that the opposition know this as well. To kick the goal you have to get the footy, and the best place to get the footy is not usually 10 yards out dead in front. Give it to the player who is deep in the pocket, and trust him to have a crack at the goal.

You can't structure for that, you have to rely on player instinct, which is what Clarko does with Cyril, Bruest, and the rest of the Hawk Mid size forwards. And it works. The opposition can't counter your game plan if you don't have one.
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The_Yeti Port vs Swans 6 years 1 month ago #19

The_Yeti
I don't entirely agree with that, RM.

You can plan for it to an extent. Yes you rely on player abilities and instinct but you structure your processes to make the best use of those factors.

You forget its a team game and the team has to be playing from the same book. You simply cannot say game plans don't exist, they do. Watch how some teams move the ball through the middle of the ground and some around the flanks. When you know how a team is going to play, you can work to counter it.

I'll give an example that I've raised before, Roly's defensive zone. We didn't defend man on man but zoned off with the idea of running in an getting multiple players to the fall of the ball. For a while it worked. Clarkson worked out how to beat it and others have copied him. You wait until the zone has set and have a player lead into a space a short distance from the kicker, who then accommodates that lead. It requires a short kick to prevent the zone players having time to reach the ball and it requires good foot skills to get the kick perfect.

Cameron was one who copied it but until the last two years his team never had the skills to maintain it.

Now it requires the team setting the zone to change to prevent that short kick

Game plans...they happen
Egurls Suck!
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Jezza Port vs Swans 6 years 1 month ago #20

Jezza
I reckon Hawks game plan mirrors Freo.
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freo00 Port vs Swans 6 years 1 month ago #21

freo00
I haven't seen the Hawks continually bombing the ball in the forward line or have there forward playing in the backline or not defending when in defence eg. not getting close to a player to make it hard for the short pass . handballing to a player standing next to you , missing targets 10m away .
Until this game that is what we have been doing , either we had a fluke game ( on Saturday ) or we changed something towards what we have all been screaming for . I hope we changed something and we can keep it going .
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Blue1red1, The_Yeti, Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

Noddy Port vs Swans 6 years 1 month ago #22

Noddy
Bombing it in makes sense when you drop the bomb onto someone whose capable of marking it....bombs away to Tabs. With the new interference rule in marking contests I think we should B52 him.
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Corporal Agarn Port vs Swans 6 years 1 month ago #23

Corporal Agarn
Jezza is showing his comedic side I think....hope....surely?
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Blue1red1 said You Beaut

Raglan Matt Port vs Swans 6 years 1 month ago #24

Raglan Matt
Or, Yeti, the Hawks players worked out how to get the ball in to their forwards by changing what they were doing til something worked. Clarkson gave them the freedom to do this. All the successful coaches give their players that freedom because they are humble enough to admit they don't know it all
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freo00 said You Beaut

Suker Port vs Swans 6 years 1 month ago #25

Suker
Maybe game plan is an out of date term. Whatever you call it you would think all teams would endeavour to have several strategies practiced to suit various situations. When a team gets a run on, players would train to counter this. Other teams would have a different strategy to combat Sandi. Different players to guard certain opposition, and so on. So there has to be plan A, B, C...etc.
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freo00 said You Beaut

The_Yeti Port vs Swans 6 years 1 month ago #26

The_Yeti
RM,

you're right, sort of...

A game plan should be a basic structure with the players filling the blanks with their talents and skills ie You have a series of alternatives bring the ball forward ie Bomb it long to the top of the square, look for a lead from Tabs to the left, look for a lead from Fyfe to the right etc. The players should know which one is about to be used but it has to be flexible and responsive to the changing situations ie Kersten gets free and leads up the middle 30 out from goal with no opposition player with 20 meters.

The game plan should be a structure around which players have the freedom to respond.

What we've had is a rigid structure ie if nobody is clearly free go back wards or when the ball is bounced all forwards rush down to crowd the midfield etc With little or no flexibility a game plan can be countered. If its less rigid and flexible then players skills become far more important. Picking out a sudden free player, leading into space or even leading defenders away from where the ball is going next.

You need enough of a plan that everybody knows what is supposed to happen and enough flexibility to do something completely different because an opportunity arises. Its not just skill, its decision making, which gets lost a bit in a rigid game plan.

There is still room for set plays as well. TBH, it can't be fully explained in a forum post. It has to be part of player and squad development
Egurls Suck!
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pollyanna Port vs Swans 6 years 1 month ago #27

pollyanna
I know someone at the WeePoos - from their goal to their forward 50 each player has two options, an a and a b. There are two ways up the ground, up the guts or along the flank. Three groups of players- defenders, mids and forwards - have those two options to work with. Once someone makes a choice or a mistake they all know what to do. A is preferable to B, but if they are forced into B they can keep going with an eye out for an A option. When the other team have the ball they all have a defensive A and B set as well.

I think you'll find that most teams are similar. The WeePoos make sure everyone is on the same page and that the three zones link together that they can read what a teammate is going to do (A or B).

The game plan is about forcing your movement onto your opponent - or stifling your opponents strength so that yours will have an opportunity to succeed. That's what we did on Saturday - we choked up the Bummers quick movement up the middle, forcing their forwards up the ground. We choked them up and put great pressure on them in their back half and largely kept them to the flanks. Then we did our stuff - like the better days under different coaches.

You've got to have control of the ball and enough time/space/composure to 'hit a leading forward'. That's way too precise to bank on more than a couple of times a game. The WeePoos hardly did it today - Hawkins has only kicked one goal in two rounds - most of the goals come from other avenues now.
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The_Yeti, rogerrocks said You Beaut

Raglan Matt Port vs Swans 6 years 1 month ago #28

Raglan Matt
So it's a "game indication of what we want plan" then
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