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TOPIC: Hope & Despair

KingKepler Hope & Despair 6 years 1 month ago #43

KingKepler
How many more performances like that Jezza do you consider to be part of us heading in the right direction?

Remember we lost multiple games by over 100 points last season and quite a few more by 20 goals.

I can't think of a coach in the history of the game that has overseen these kinds of results not be under any pressure.
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Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

Blue1red1 Hope & Despair 6 years 1 month ago #44

Blue1red1
Hat Quasi?
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larkin Hope & Despair 6 years 1 month ago #45

larkin
KK if we play 4 blokes with only 2 games between them on Saturday um anything is possible.
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exceed Hope & Despair 6 years 1 month ago #46

exceed
The trick about a rebuild IMO is not only about playing youngsters , but also adapting a game plan that reflects the team at the time.
I don't see how putting youngsters straight into a experienced game plan ( for better words) , will be good for them , as it will be too much for them to understand. I see the game plan adapting as the experience level increases.
I am not sure that the current game plan is a reflection of a rebuild list.
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The_Yeti said You Beaut

The_Yeti Hope & Despair 6 years 1 month ago #47

The_Yeti
The way I see it, our game plan is responsible for no improvement being observed as we go through the rebuild.

The game is predicated on effort. This is well known by all on here. Part of that is using a contested midfield and turning outside mids into inside mids like happened with Stephen Hill. That is my view was an error but one required by an 'effort' game plan.

We do not have stay at home forwards because the 'effort' fame plan has them moving into and assisting the midfield. While that can work if your midfield is running the show, it hurts badly when it gets beaten, like ours has been for a while. Better skilled sides can handball out of congestion where poorer skilled side like Freo can turn it over.

Having no forwards means opposition coaches have a one dimensional attack to defend against. The ball comes in, generally high and it allows fewer defenders to be more effective in spoiling the ball. Result, plenty of entries and fewer marks inside 50. Sound familiar?

It also means better skilled sides can pick their way out of our defense by spotting up targets that drop into holes in our zone defence. This cannot be a surprise to anyone as been happening for some years now and I'm pretty sure that anybody who has been to game has seen this occur.

The upshot of this can easily result on 1 or 2 more shots on goal for the opposition, mostly on turnovers due to skill errors. When you think about that and it seems small but 2 goals per quarter can result in a 50 point loss quite easily.

We have to adapt and we simply have made no effort for years to fundamentally change we way we do things. We must improve on our skills. Thats a given. We must change our structures, especially forward. That is also a given.

I'm even confident that Jezza would not argue against making these changes because they are so obvious. It won't cure every problem and it won't get us to a flag but it will result in a lot more wins and give grounds for further improvements. If these changes are not implemented then I can't see us improving much at all.

We need to start soon because raising our skills levels is a long term process. It cannot happen in a week or two or indeed, even in one season.
Egurls Suck!
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KingKepler, Corporal Agarn, Suker said You Beaut

Jezza Hope & Despair 6 years 1 month ago #48

Jezza
The best skilled side on show on the weekend was GWS. No secret that they’ve been assisted by the compromise draft 6 years ago. The fact the they’ve drafted 2 power forwards in Jezza and Patton makes them an awesome team at the minute. Cammac was part of their draft bonanza so he needs to step up. What I also saw from GWS was their gut running in particular their mids and high half forwards. But what’s surprising is that they’re game plan revolved around effort. So I don’t buy into your thinking Yeti that our game plan relies on effort. That’s a non negotiable. Another non negotiable is that you bloody tackle and make it stick. It’s not complicated. Other than honing your skills, your first job is to beat your man. On the weekend, we didn’t do that.
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The_Yeti Hope & Despair 6 years 1 month ago #49

The_Yeti
For someone who talks up Roly every chance he gets, Jezza, I'm surprised at your last post.

Roly himself has stated many times he doesn't train skills, he trains effort.

Everyone requires effort but not everyone has Hawthorn level skills. We certainly don't
Egurls Suck!
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Raglan Matt Hope & Despair 6 years 1 month ago #50

Raglan Matt
Yeah, Yeti, rebuild the game plan, it will take a lot less than 4 years. About 4 hrs I reckon, with the right minds at work.
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Suker said You Beaut

The_Yeti Hope & Despair 6 years 1 month ago #51

The_Yeti
Longer than that RM.

Raising our skill levels is simply not an overnight process. You cannot execute a complicated game plan unless you have the skills to make it work.
Egurls Suck!
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FDB Hope & Despair 6 years 1 month ago #52

FDB
What about a simple one?
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The_Yeti Hope & Despair 6 years 1 month ago #53

The_Yeti
FDB,

thats the best place top start until we've improved. Best for all including the new players.

Back to basics and build on that
Egurls Suck!
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Suker Hope & Despair 6 years 1 month ago #54

Suker
Once the game plan/style/structure is determined...the players need to own it, feel confident in it, want to implement it, believe in it...then the skills should come more naturally. If players are unsure or don't feel confident in executing, then I reckon it will show as it did for a lot of PA game. Of course we are as skilled as any other team...but confidence will make ordinary players excellent. Confidence, or lack of, is something good people managers should be able to recognise and develop or foster. If one does not believe in confidence being at least a part of the game then one must take the blinkers off and realise that we are all different and all can respond to situations or stimulus/pressure in different ways. Assistant coaches like Mr Kirk would, it would seem, be equipped with this sort of insight.
Of course we have the skills...but players need to be loving at least most aspects of professional football to play as well as they can. Of course effort is important but pet the animal, don't beat it...and you will get better results.
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KingKepler said You Beaut

FDB Hope & Despair 6 years 1 month ago #55

FDB
Actually Yeti, I'd argue that a complicated game plan requires less skill than a simple one. Just a whole bunch of robotic dedication and effort.

A simple game plan requires skilful ball handling (don't google that), the audacity to occasionally go up the guts (or that), and a leading forward. For some reason I can't think of any salacious association for thrusting, penetrating leads, but I'm sure it'll come before long.
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Suker said You Beaut

The_Yeti Hope & Despair 6 years 1 month ago #56

The_Yeti
Suker,

you can't be serious if you say that we are as skilled as other sides. Our skills as a group are well below sides like Hawthorn and are below AFL standard.

Skills are not the only issue we have but thats where we know we have to improve
Egurls Suck!
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