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TOPIC: Teams: GWS v Fremantle

Noddy Teams: GWS v Fremantle 6 years 9 months ago #57

Noddy
Until we get a balanced list with around 26 quality players to cover all the lines, a game plan developed by JC won't greatly change where we are at. It's been said time and time again, apart from Pav, since Roly has been with us we've had a very basic forward line i.e. No power forwards. Pav staying with us through his career was good for us but unusual that he didn't go East. We'll always struggle to recruit key players and need to focus on developing and drafting local talent .
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Docker by the Sea Teams: GWS v Fremantle 6 years 9 months ago #58

Docker by the Sea
No question Clarko's credentials, unfortunately he is at Hawthorn. If he was available 17 clubs would likely sack their coach and get him. However he is not so I fail to see how this is relevant in assessing Lyons ability to coach other than to say Clarko is likely a better coach doesn't then follow that Lyon can't coach.
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exceed Teams: GWS v Fremantle 6 years 9 months ago #59

exceed
Interesting listening on 6pr.
For all those freo appologists who love mediocrity, don't listen
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Flag_2005 Teams: GWS v Fremantle 6 years 9 months ago #60

Flag_2005
Because Hackdorn and Langdon are taking pot shots at Freo to take the attention off West Coast??
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larkin, rogerrocks, expat, Raglan Matt said You Beaut

larkin Teams: GWS v Fremantle 6 years 9 months ago #61

larkin
Maybe Roly could open a tweet account and put the boot into those unprofessional clowns … it could be hilarious – of course he won't but … (with just Hardie and Langdon or Hagdorn it could pass as a Punch and Judy show but he is outnumbered)
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Noddy Teams: GWS v Fremantle 6 years 9 months ago #62

Noddy
Listen to 6pr......why punish yourself?
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shane Teams: GWS v Fremantle 6 years 9 months ago #63

shane
Mushroom. It's been 37 hours. I still can't name the Brisbane coach.
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Mushroom said You Beaut

Rat Teams: GWS v Fremantle 6 years 9 months ago #64

Rat
I actualy was at that game and in the carpark there was an attendant who said Brisbane would win the game , his name was Harry could that be it ?
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Raglan Matt said You Beaut

jimb2 Teams: GWS v Fremantle 6 years 9 months ago #65

jimb2
A different game plan solves everything = Magical thinking.

There are 18 teams full of professional athletes and staff who are all busting their arses trying to do a little better than everyone else. In this environment, a successful team is not going to need a better game plan to reach the top, they are going to need a slightly better everything to reach the top. This won't happen by recruiting a coach or a set of coaches that can nut out some super game plan that mysteriously can't be disrupted by the opposition. It comes from years of developing and improving everything. All this stuff has to occur in a flat out competitive environment, working at the limits of what people know, and what what players and coaches can do.

Even then, luck and timing play a big part. Most recruits fail to make 50 games, no matter who selected them. Despite best efforts of everyone involved, injuries remain unpreventable and random and this affects team performance. The draft and the salary cap, by design, produces cycles of success and failure.

What we want is a culture of management and development in all areas that persists despite changes in personnel. As far as I can tell the club - including RL - are fully committed to this.

The magical fix idea is crazy, but what is worse is it is the road to failure. Once everything else is working the game plan is the easy part. If it was just the game plan, everyone would have done it and 18 teams would win the premiership every year.

For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
-- H.L. Mencken
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Noddy said You Beaut

The_Yeti Teams: GWS v Fremantle 6 years 9 months ago #66

The_Yeti
Thats all very neat, jimb2 but I think your neat summation is best summed up by the last line of your post.

Where it all falls down of course is the act of repeating what has failed to work in the past.

As for the game plan being the easy part, well thats contrary to all the other pro-Roly puff pieces we get wade through. Apparently, its the game plan that turns 'soldiers into role players' and hence success....and now it doesn't.

Its actually a binary solution here. You either use what you have to your best advantage or you try and fit what you have into your approach. The first approach is generally the more successful because you get a better return on your assets. The second approach is characterised by a reduced return, discarding players who can't be made to fit or don't fit a narrow focus and is a sign of inflexibility.

If the second approach doesn't actually work then instead of achieving success, you are holding it at bay.

Clarkson employs the first approach, Roly the second approach

I'll leave you to figure out who is the more successful.
Egurls Suck!
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Noddy Teams: GWS v Fremantle 6 years 9 months ago #67

Noddy
'You either use what you have to your best advantage or you try and fit what you have into your approach.'

I think the first approach was used to get us into our only GF, and is currently being used. Our game plan/style is as many teams do adapted to meet the merits of the opposition as best we can with the players at hand.
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jimb2 Teams: GWS v Fremantle 6 years 9 months ago #68

jimb2
I'm not suggesting that you don't need a game plan. Unfortunately, that's not enough.

You just need players who can execute it better than the opposition players can disrupt and neutralise it. ( I would guess that more time and mental effort goes into disrupting game plans than developing them.) Getting a group of players together with the levels of talent and training in excess of the levels of talent and training of the opposition players who are actively trying to counter your game plan is the real issue.

If your players can't execute reliably in the actual competition you don't have a game plan. Or so it will appear.
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rogerrocks said You Beaut

The_Yeti Teams: GWS v Fremantle 6 years 9 months ago #69

The_Yeti
I disagree, Noddy.

Roly likes a one style approach and players that can't be fitted into that style, get discarded. Hence, the 'we can't do this because we don't have X player or a Y player'.

Clarkson lost Buddy, which is a huge loss to any side, so he rearranged how he used Gunston in particular....and won another flag. Roly lost Pav and hasn't yet recovered
Egurls Suck!
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The_Yeti Teams: GWS v Fremantle 6 years 9 months ago #70

The_Yeti
Again, disagree with that jimb2.

Execution at Freo has not had skill as a focus under Roly as he has focuised on effort to the exclusion of all else. The game plan employed by him requires players to know where and when to run and to run hard. If that stops working, then the lack of football skills becomes a huge issue.

That has yet to be addressed
Egurls Suck!
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purplepower said You Beaut