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TOPIC: Urgent new coach needed

Raglan Matt Urgent new coach needed 6 years 9 months ago #113

Raglan Matt
Do the players out on the ground need to take some control of the game plan when it isn't working? Go away from the expected style of play and create something that works against the opposition of the day. That seemed to me to be what happened in the 2 or 3 games after the Port disaster, and we had some success. Let go of the reins Ross, and allow your players to play the game in front of them, or get out.

Question 2 Is Bond coaching by proxy? The way we are playing seems to me to be his way of playing . Is that why Harvey was sacked, because he would not go along with the corporate model.
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cletus, Rat said You Beaut

DS Urgent new coach needed 6 years 9 months ago #114

DS
Yeti I really wish I could have a pair of your rose coloured glasses when looking at our team, but from where I sit, we have one A-lister (Fyfe) a number of B-listers (not going to bother listing them all) some of whom can play better than has been on show this year, and a bunch of promising kids.

Some of those kids will develop into A-listers hopefully over the next few years and join Captain-For-Life-Fyfe in our next push for a premiership but until they do, the aforementioned B-listers ain't gonna do it, no matter who is coaching.
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Flag_2005 said You Beaut

Flag_2005 Urgent new coach needed 6 years 9 months ago #115

Flag_2005
Cletus the extension of your 'be more efficient' argument is for the team to be more direct and go longer earlier. That's all well and good but we have McCarthy and Kersten to kick it too and neither of them are renowned for their overhead or contested marking.
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DS said You Beaut

Flag_2005 Urgent new coach needed 6 years 9 months ago #116

Flag_2005
RM - what is the 'corporate model' you speak of insofar as it applies to coaching??? I would have thought the expectations of a coach are pretty clear - win games of footy, ideally win a flag and develop young players so that you minimise as much as possible the aim of the draft which is to give every club a fair shot at winning a flag.
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Derby12 Urgent new coach needed 6 years 9 months ago #117

Derby12
Flag 2005 - I'd be happy if we maximised the aim of the draft to give every side a fair shot at winning.
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cletus Urgent new coach needed 6 years 9 months ago #118

cletus
They could try leading on to the ball....but they are not allowed to be in that position when the ball starts making its way out of the backline. At that point, they are stuck down in the back half being part of RoLy's 18 man fustercluck.

The only way they can lead up, is run back to the starting position from the back half, hope like heck that somebodies held it for long enough with sideways kicks , and, hope that the opposition has somehow not gone back with them . Its a strategy based on hope...or that the opposition doesn't make the similar effort.

But here's the thing! They do!

And, so, if it hasn't been turned over by that point because of errant skill, and they are not completely buggered from running back (and this is happening throughout the whole match) , well, they are able to lead up into no space because the opposition have got back and filled all the space in.

So of cause it gets kicked on top of there heads, or they have to look for the ball going over the top, so they can run back on to it.

We see the dropped contested mark, but its all been created by a bats**t crazy gameplan.

Why not just keep them deep forward?, and if their opponents do not want to man them, well...., we've got fellows free in the forward line. Can't see what is bad about that,especially, if you've apparently got an elite midfield, (Fyfe, Hills, Neale, Mundy, Walters/Blakely. ) And, there is a decent ruckman there winning at least 50% of the taps. Sandy /Hodor.

It ain't rocket science! And don't tell me we can't do that because none of the other teams do it. That's EXACTLY the reason why we should do it.
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Bizkit, DazzElle, Rat said You Beaut

Flag_2005 Urgent new coach needed 6 years 9 months ago #119

Flag_2005
If they stayed deep forward it would be 15 v 18 in our defensive half of the field and we'd get belted. No side in the AFL keeps their forwards 'deep forward' once the centre bounce has played out and there's a good reason for that.
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Derby12 Urgent new coach needed 6 years 9 months ago #120

Derby12
Morgan - responding to one point - the system shouldn't be whole field or game wide. It doesn't have to be a universal construct anf fiendishly difficult to implement. Look at Hawthorn. They break it down to the contest, and then the player at the contest, and the players position in relation to that contest, dictate how they will play. So for example, there is a contest at ground level so the closest 1-2 Hawks go into the scrum, and the next 2 position themselves outside/behind 2-5 metres, and then the next across moves to 10 m, and down the ground, the next line moves into position to lead to the space that second or third clear player will kick to. He marks and moves it quickly on, or there is a contest, ball comes to ground, rinse and repeat. It's the epitome of basic building blocks. Sure there are other situations, but their plan is pretty simple, and very effective. No matter where you are, you can know you your role in that situation.

It's the same plan they have brought to every game I have seen against them at Subi. As Clarkson said on many occasions previously, when players went out with injury - we have a structure, and the player who steps in takes up that role, and responds according to the play. This has happened even when that player has played bugger all games in the senior side.

Show me anything in that plan, or a plan of similar simplicity, that couldn't be implemented in 18 months that wouldn't be manifesting by now? Instead we have 3 blokes spoiling, or contesting the ground ball, and no-one down or outside. They are doing this because this is what is expected. Because you are coached out of this by the time you hit under 15's. There are no simple, easily replicated systems or structures forming around the ground that I can see.

There is no evidence of even the basis of a system other than get as many people as possible as close to the contest as possible, and work it out through weight of numbers. This is not a system. By now, even with young and new players, we should be beginning to see some elements of a recognisable pattern emerging. There is none. We don't even have an effective kick out play, and the one that does work for us occasionally revolves around Luke Ryan - one player, and a first year at that.

If Roly is playing a long game, then it is epic.

It feels like a cop out to me to suggest that coaching is too hard for us to grasp. The best teachers you can ever have are those with the ability to make the complex simple by breaking it down. Clarkson would be one of those. Luke Beveridge probably another. Roly, it would appear, would not be.
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Rhufus, themagoos, Rat said You Beaut

Noddy Urgent new coach needed 6 years 9 months ago #121

Noddy
FIrst year into a rebuild and the long knives are out. I've never seen a bunch of youngsters show so much potential...good work by the coaches.
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Morgan Urgent new coach needed 6 years 9 months ago #122

Morgan
Cletus, the theory goes that team sports fit somewhere on a strong-link to weak-link continuum. If you’re a basketball team, you’re better off spending your money on superstar players, because they can create points on their own. A team with one superstar and 4 average players will be better than a team of 5 good players. Similarly in the NFL an elite quarterback has more influence. Soccer, with 11 players on the field is probably closer to the middle. AFL, with 18 players with a free range of movement, I think is one of the best examples of a sport where the sum of the parts is most important.

I don’t think the aim is reduce the links: Geelong at its best moved the ball with a flurry of handballs rather than kicking long. Hawthorn used elite kickers to chip through zones instead of kicking long. In both instances they had players capable of playing that way, a coach good enough to instil that system, and enough continuity and repetition to make it a reality. They each suffered internal crises before they won a premiership, but rode them out.

A rebuilding coach would normally get a few years grace period before fans expected him to have a team clicking. Lyon isn’t getting the benefit of the doubt because people consider he failed at the first go-around, and assume he won’t put out a team/system capable of kicking a winning score. But if you need three planks to being successful – more talented players, a good coach, and continuity - Lyon is trying to make it work without two planks.

I tend to think he can only be judged on the rebuild after a few years of the rebuild. On this season alone he’s demonstrated that he’ll put games into young players at the expense of a few favourites. The team has played consistently hard. Players have re-signed and not jumped ship. I’ve seen some evidence of players trying hard to move the ball quickly from defence.

What we haven’t seen is many goals. But when I look at our forward line on paper, I don’t see many goals in those players. We’ve only got one A-Grade forward in Walters, and he’s been playing through the middle. Would anyone else even be considered even a B-Grade forward? Cammac might have A-Grade talent, but he’s playing like a bit of a spud. The biggest criticism seems to be that we’re not playing a tall spud off the rookie list instead of a medium-sized spud Geelong threw away for a fourth round pick. Neither are above-average players.

Conversely, our midfield is winning the ball despite downgrading from one of the most dominant tap-ruckmen in history to a bloke who still has puppy fat. I don’t give points to Lyon for that. We’ve got Neale, Fyfe and others in there who are great players.

Derby12, the part you're describing is the ball-winning to spread part of football. That works for Hawthorn, but we're winning the ball ok. To my eye we're even doing a decent job on getting the ball out of the spread - B Hill is great at this. Where it falls down is transition from winning to going forward. You need the midfield and forward line to have some synchronicity, and there is very little. That's the part of whole-of-team system that we are missing, but given three of our named forwards have barely played together, and Ballas is playing like a crab, to me that seems like the only expected outcome.
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cletus, Rat said You Beaut

Raglan Matt Urgent new coach needed 6 years 9 months ago #123

Raglan Matt
Flag, corporate model is the question I asked first, is Bond trying to control the coach and club?.

Regarding the 15 v 18, it would not happen because no coach will leave 3 players unattended in an opposition forward line, especially if 2 of them are Sandi and Fyfe.

(yeah I know, Fyfe is needed in the midfield. that blows that game out of the water without even launching it.)
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cletus, DazzElle said You Beaut

Corporal Agarn Urgent new coach needed 6 years 9 months ago #124

Corporal Agarn
You don't see the big name forwards at other clubs pushing past more than about the centre line, and sometimes not at all. Can't remember seeing them in the opposition half which is a common Fremantle flood tactic.
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cletus, Rat said You Beaut

cletus Urgent new coach needed 6 years 9 months ago #125

cletus
MR ...thanks for stealing my thunder...:) ! Flag, if you can't see that 15vs 18 be a good thing for attacking offensive football, then , yep, RoLy has it all over you.

Here's the thing ...! You don't actually have to play AFL footy all the time in your back half!!

Spares in the forward line are exactly what a team is trying to create.

And show me the opposition coach that will leave 3 men ...let alone 2 men!... well, dammit! ...1 man! unattended in an opponents forward line. It just won't happen. At worst there'll be even numbers in the defensive half, and if they want to run off...well...let 'em!

We should try it sometime. Just keep the thing going forward. We teach juniors that, its common sense, and -for my mind - thats exactly what we did in rd 2 & rd 3. We refused to backwards, we got the ball and went forwards....
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Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

Raglan Matt Urgent new coach needed 6 years 9 months ago #126

Raglan Matt
Cletus, nothing personal, but are you watching the game backwards as well,

Signed RM
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cletus said You Beaut