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The_Yeti This is Fremantle 6 years 10 months ago #29

The_Yeti
Go and watch the replay then Stoney. They got their first 3 goals from our turnovers in the back 50. First game of the season

Edit:

Let me correct the record here, Stoney.

It wasn't Geelong that their first three goals from our turnovers, they only got their first two. It was Port Adelaide a week later that got their first three from us putting the ball into their forward 50 and turning it over.

It wasn't until Roly was forced to change his favourites that we started actually kicking forward and started winning.
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purple kit This is Fremantle 6 years 10 months ago #30

purple kit
you must have a very short memory Jezza, there were plenty on here bemoaning our lack of coaching and game plan even during our winning streak.
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The_Yeti This is Fremantle 6 years 10 months ago #31

The_Yeti
Jezza,

Best coach is still that short, bad tempered bloke from Hawthorn.

Clarkson's team may not be having a stellar season but you can see where they are improving weekly. They've also been hurt with injuries and a terrible start to the season but they are heading upwards.

Longmire is doing ok after a terrible start but Sydney still has substantial issues.

Personally I'd expect Hawthorn to step up dramatically next year.
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The_Yeti This is Fremantle 6 years 10 months ago #32

The_Yeti
Agreed, PK.

Comments about skills and lack of forward line structure are not new. They first appeared when Roly did....and I still remember both making them and reading them
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Corporal Agarn This is Fremantle 6 years 10 months ago #33

Corporal Agarn
Yeti, all other clubs are stepping up compared to us. We've lost 5 in a row and it's hard to see where our next win is coming from.
NM are below us but I'm not at all confident of winning that as you don't have to go back far to look at how we performed against Brisbane who had only won one game.

Walters kicked half our goals this week. That's not going to happen every week and I just can't see where we our goals going to come from.
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The_Yeti This is Fremantle 6 years 10 months ago #34

The_Yeti
Unfortunately, I've been having similar thoughts, CA.

Something has to change. I have no idea what its going to take to get Roly to move away from what he knows but if he doesn't, you can expect more of the same.

Our best players this year have been the youngsters. They still play football not Rolyball. We should be taking a lesson from that
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Bizkit This is Fremantle 6 years 10 months ago #35

Bizkit
How do you forget howling me down for suggesting RL took his foot off the pedal and let the kids play after round 2 Jezza? Getting new blood in the side who didn't immediately look backwards and sideways to distribute the footy, who grabbed it and looked to attack rather than follow RL's overly defensive plans.

I don't think yesterday was the best example of what Drubbing is trying to indicate regarding RL's coaching but it was definitely there mixed in with occasional bursts of individual brilliance and youthful exuberance to keep us in the game.

The point Polly makes is probably the most cutting and telling of why so many on here don't rate RL anymore, he's a one trick pony and his trick didn't manage to come off when he had a star studded side in 2013. Since then it has proven even more of a failure as every other side has developed better tactics to combat it as well as a variety of other weapons. On the other hand we continue to do the same things until some kids inspire some attacking motivation and under RL they will have it coached out of them soon enough.
Nathan: When did you get balls?
Simon: I've always had balls you've just never seen them.
Nathan: That's the gayest thing I've ever heard.
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ICONDOCKER This is Fremantle 6 years 10 months ago #36

ICONDOCKER
A case in point regards player development would be to compare
Weller and Blakely.
I recall Weller to be a more offensively minded player during his early games, I feel his progress has gone sideways along with his kicking.
Highlighted this week by Healy when Weller kicked a floater across the ground that was intercepted for a goal.
Weller appears to have towed the line whereas Blakely struggled to conform it would seem.
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Stoney This is Fremantle 6 years 10 months ago #37

Stoney
Yeti - I’d already watched the replay before my bull-cough-crap comment.
I understand you have since kind of corrected your earlier claim but for clarity my comment was based on your following claim.

"Geelong got their first 3 goals from 0 count them 0 forward 50m entries. Why? Well we won all three clearances went backwards every time"

Clearance #1 of the game yes we won it and yes we went backwards but only about 3m backwards of the centre square and after about 8 mins of actual game time we goaled first via a Langdon mark.

Ok now we’ll get to the original claim of their first 3 goals coming as a result of us winning the clearance, us going backwards into their fwd 50 and them goaling.

Geelong goal #1 - Game centre clearance #2 - Geelong clearly win the centre clearance and a couple of minutes later they goal. Granted a stupid error of judgement from Jonno - but the point is they won the clearance not Freo.
Geelong goal #2 - Game centre clearance #3 - We got the clearance but with no really clarity and managed to RoLyball the pill to just short of our (not their) fwd 50m arc. 3.5 mins of actually game time later and after a number of Geelong inside 50’s all from their own boot. They goal again.
Geelong goal #3 - Game centre clearance #4 - Geelong clearly win the centre clearance and 20 seconds later BANG goal Geelong. Direct goal from their centre clearance.

So tell me again how many of their first 3 goals came from us winning the centre clearance, going backwards into their fwd 50 and them goaling?
I count at 0 based on your description of events.

Do I really have to watch us v Port? OK I will but it’ll be on the basis of your claim of….
"It was Port Adelaide a week later that got their first three from us putting the ball into their forward 50 and turning it over.”

Port goal 1 - Centre clearance 1 - They clearly win the clearance - we clear the 50 and turn to over on the wing. They goal from their next inside 50 which would be credited to Polak from Port.
Port goal 2 - Centre clearance 2 - We would be credited with the clearance went fwd scored point - but you are 100% correct in that we turned it over inside their fwd 50 - Spurr going sideways to Wingard who intercepts and kicks an easy goal.
Port goal 3 - Centre clearance 3 - We won clearance went backwards and eventually but worked it fwd for a shot on goal which B Hill kicked OOF. A minute or so later Spurr kicks in from a Port point and Fyfe takes possession but loses control of the ball approximately 25m outside their fwd 50. Ebert is then credited with banging it long inside Ports 50. Robbie Gray marks and goals.
So technically 1 of the 3 were as you described it - "It was Port Adelaide a week later that got their first three from us putting the ball into their forward 50 and turning it over.”
Only Port goal #2 came as you described.

But we were shite on that we can agree.

It appears to me you have adopted a position that Roly’s responsible for our woes and have presented your supporting evidence but the facts differ from the evidence.
What I see when re-watching these events was a very very small amount of the claims you presented 1/6 and a whole lot of shite decision making and poor skill errors that I lay firmly at the feet of the players responsible. Oh that and a number of dubious umpiring decisions particularly in the lead up to Geelong’s first 3 goals.

If I stand accused of being pedantic then I plead guilty.
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Raglan Matt This is Fremantle 6 years 10 months ago #38

Raglan Matt
Why, why, why, why did you have to spoil the myth Stoney???
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Jezza This is Fremantle 6 years 10 months ago #39

Jezza
Stoney those analysis are sublime. I've gone past providing a stance for the way our team plays and the coach responsible. Our history suggests that until we win a premiership, the masses will continue to crucify the leaders of our club. This is a win, lost business. Attractive footy and scoring above 100 pts etc don't win you premierships. You score more than the opponent you win. To say that we had a star studded team in 2013 is a crock. Now if you go back to 2006 I'd probably agree. And Polly, Chris Scott, except for 2011, had at his disposal a galaxy of stars. When Ablett departed, so did their premierships and apparently everyone rated Scott. I'll say it again, players make coaches. If and when Freo wins a premiership is not because we've been coached well it's because we've had the players to do it. Don't complicate things. KISS.
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cletus This is Fremantle 6 years 10 months ago #40

cletus
Great to see the assistant coaches are actually doing something and are contributing now to Dockerland. I expect Messers Rock, Prior, Guerra, Hale and Eastaugh to follow Stoney's lead.
PS Roger H, you don't have to because youre a legend!!
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Wedge Antilles This is Fremantle 6 years 10 months ago #41

Wedge Antilles
Take a look at this team and tell me the 2010 variety wasn't our most talented - http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_match_statistics?mid=5120.

2006 and 2013 are not even close. The 2010 team had elements of both but all of our guns were in their prime except Fyfe and Hasleby and we had a backline of Roger, Duffman, Broughton and Tarrant, to go with McPharlin and Johnson. 2006 had Farmer. 2013 had Walters and peak Fyfe. Otherwise no comparison and 2006 had five or six guys who wouldn't make the 2013 team. Harvey was headed for a premiership with the 2010 group until Barlow's leg break.

I agree that it is mostly about the players available when it comes to winning a premiership. It is extremely rare that a low talent team wins it or a supremely talented team fails to win anything. A lot of people thought those Malcolm Blight Geelong GF teams should have won something but they had some real dead weight in there compared to the opposition. His Adelaide teams didn't have weak links.

I think coaches are more about the years building up to a premiership and attracting good players because they can see the potential. That's where a good brand of football can attract talent, something Lyon needs to work on, although I think we were playing it during part of our run of wins earlier in the season. Then it's about injury management (not the coach) and keeping players motivated.

West Coast defeated by Fremantle
Round 6, Domain Stadium, Attendance: 40886
Sunday, 2nd May 2010, 2:40 PM AWST

Player K HB D M G B T HO I50 FF FA AF SC
Michael Barlow 10 15 25 4 1 0 8 0 5 1 1 108 126
Paul Duffield 17 7 24 3 0 0 4 0 6 0 1 87 120
Paul Hasleby 6 15 21 2 0 0 6 0 3 0 1 75 77
David Mundy 7 14 21 1 0 0 10 1 3 2 1 92 125
Greg Broughton 12 7 19 6 0 0 3 0 1 2 0 82 92
Rhys Palmer 9 9 18 3 1 0 2 0 2 1 1 66 82
Stephen Hill 7 10 17 3 0 0 3 0 4 1 0 63 44
Matthew Pavlich 11 5 16 8 5 2 5 0 4 0 0 119 125
Michael Johnson 12 4 16 6 3 0 2 3 1 0 3 82 58
Hayden Ballantyne 9 7 16 3 0 3 3 0 3 0 1 62 78
Luke McPharlin 7 7 14 4 0 0 4 0 1 1 0 64 68
Christopher Mayne 5 9 14 4 2 0 5 0 1 1 2 72 86
Dylan Roberton 13 1 14 1 0 0 3 0 0 1 0 57 74
Alex Silvagni 10 3 13 2 0 0 7 0 1 0 3 61 43
Aaron Sandilands 4 8 12 2 1 0 4 33 0 2 1 88 114
Adam McPhee 8 4 12 2 0 0 5 0 4 1 2 53 49
Anthony Morabito 8 4 12 3 0 1 4 2 4 0 2 54 65
Ryan Crowley 3 8 11 2 0 0 7 1 0 0 1 57 46
Chris Tarrant 7 3 10 1 0 0 6 0 1 1 1 52 57
Matthew De Boer 4 6 10 2 0 0 4 0 2 0 1 43 46
Roger Hayden 4 5 9 0 2 0 6 0 1 0 2 52 50
Nathan Fyfe 5 2 7 3 2 0 5 0 1 0 0 60 74
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Corporal Agarn This is Fremantle 6 years 10 months ago #42

Corporal Agarn
I find this idea of star studded teams a bit of a furphy. Yes, I agree that Hawthorn at their peak recently had quite a few stars but I'm thinking of current teams at the top and I can't think of a team littered with stars.

WB may have jagged a premiership last year but the only real star I would have thought was Bontempelli. Johannisen had a great game on the day but don't know if he's be classified as a star.
Geelong this year. Who are their stars besides Dangerfield and Selwood?
Adelaide. Who besides Sloane, Betts and perhaps Walker?
Richmond. Who besides Martin?
Slime. Who besides Kennedy?
GWS are probably the exception with a lot of up and coming stars in the making, plus they've still got plenty of injuries. I suppose they should have with the amount of early draft picks they got.
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