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TOPIC: Can we win?

Raglan Matt Can we win? 6 years 10 months ago #71

Raglan Matt
Remember Walters having a free paid against against Collingwood for using his body to "shepherd an opponent out before the marking contest" and a Freo player (cant remember who) getting the same penalty on Sunday? And then watch each week how many times our forwards, (and backs) are kept out of the contest for a high or rushed kick in. The commentators even joke about how players do a good job of pretending to go for the mark, but some don't even pretend. This is why we have trouble getting value out of our tall forwards. The tactic Freo should be using is kick to grass, and let our pace win the ball. We try this occasionally, but then get a deliberate out of bounds paid if the ball rolls over the line.
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rogerrocks said You Beaut

FDB Can we win? 6 years 10 months ago #72

FDB
Personally, I think we did as well as we did precisely because the game was considered a write off - a learning experience for young blood - so Roly had his hands off the levers.
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purple kit, Bizkit said You Beaut

Noddy Can we win? 6 years 10 months ago #73

Noddy
He can try to organize it but whether the players are capable of enacting it is another story. I'll believe that after x number of years as an AFL coach that he knows what a functioning forward line should be. It appears we have no on field leadership at the pointy end of the ground.
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Jezza Can we win? 6 years 10 months ago #74

Jezza
Losing Pav was always going to take some adjustment. GWS and the Suns had to build their leadership from the ground up. Lets acknowledged that this is year 1 of a short rebuild. We've brought in 4 AFL players that are still in their early 20s. They're no top 10 draft picks but have got experience climbing the mountain. Then we've drafted some super talent at bargain prices. And then there's Harley Bennell that will repay the club in spades without a doubt. These are all players 24 or under that in a couple of years will be challenging the likes of GWS. I think we might still play finals this year but already the improvement in the team and the age demographic suggests success is inevitable.
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RideoftheVagaries Can we win? 6 years 10 months ago #75

RideoftheVagaries
Why the hell would we write off a game at Sleepy Hollow?

Last time we went there we won comfortably. In 2014 Mundy just missed a kick after the siren to win it after we went in as fair underdogs. Need I mention a certain 2013 final?

You'd wager Lyon would have had every reason to go in at least feeling they had a very sneaky chance and as far as the game played out, it was textbook Lyon-era Freo vs Geelong there.
;p
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Bizkit Can we win? 6 years 10 months ago #76

Bizkit
When has RL ever had a functioning forwardline though?! It's a pre-requisite in the modern game where you need to capitalise on your forward entries and RL has never been good at creating a decent forward structure, instead relying on an incredibly strong midfield to win a lot of the footy and throwing numbers behind the footy.

If we've got the kids running on enthusiasm and a chance at the big time, they're less inclined to follow RL's instructions to run behind the footy and clog up play, slow it down, pass backwards and second guess themselves like the older players have been taught. They get the footy and they look up first, run and attack which makes a big difference to the way we play. It's great to see from the new talent but RL has to actually provide a target for them to kick for rather than forwards vastly outnumbered and running towards goal instead of making leads. They need to be coached.
Nathan: When did you get balls?
Simon: I've always had balls you've just never seen them.
Nathan: That's the gayest thing I've ever heard.
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cletus, DazzElle, Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

Corporal Agarn Can we win? 6 years 10 months ago #77

Corporal Agarn
It's interesting to see how someone whom we loved to ridicule in Worsfold has changed the way he coaches and adapt a far more attacking, some may say reckless, game style, while we still have the same forward line issues, low scores, poor percentages and defensive game plan we had when Roly first arrived.
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cletus said You Beaut

RideoftheVagaries Can we win? 6 years 10 months ago #78

RideoftheVagaries
An alternate way of looking at your view of Lyon’s forward line may be a centre around definition Bizkit.

I’m guessing your definition of “functioning forward line” means solely kicking high scores as an end in itself.

While Lyon may define a “functioning forward line” as one that contributes significantly to winning the game.

This approach frees it up from being a one dimensional approach, to allow taking a number of approaches. For example, they might simply aim at kicking big scores, or maybe ensuring the ball spends a maximum time in the forward line where possible (reducing opportunities to score for the opposition as well), or floating down the field and helping other team mates get the ball and link up in possession chains.

The latter can (theoretically) be less personnel dependent and less prone to disruption by supreme defensive units (a la the 2006 prelim vs Sydney). Maybe as McCarthy comes on and if the forwards as a whole coalesce into a potent unit, there’s more of an opportunity to revert to a high scoring model more often.

Essentially the second approach (i.e. focus on winning the game as primary purpose) is a much more flexible one and opposite to the idea of it being rigid. Whether you like it or not is a personal matter of taste, for the coach though, if he thinks it’s going to help him achieve wins, it’s pretty sensible approach.

For me, I’d argue that our scoring rate has been pretty good in patches this year. We seem to be able to find goals if we’re still in the contest as the game wears on. Sure signs that the forward play isn’t so random or neglected.
;p
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shane Can we win? 6 years 10 months ago #79

shane
I’m guessing your definition of a functioning forward line must be any forward line where Ross Lyon is the coach because if you've been watching the football and think that our forward line is set up well then it's either that or you're colour blind and think we're the other team.

Efficiency is crucial in football. They probably call it something like like reward for effort in their little pre-game instruction manuals but you can't be wasting energy and opportunities like Fremantle have been. For every three times we got it inside 50 on Sunday we had one shot at goal. We took 4 marks inside 50. We laid 3 tackles inside 50. No one is home and it's not like they're up the ground providing some defensive pressure like in 2013. They're half a kick either side of the play.

It's like we have a decoy forward line trying to lure the defenders up the ground so someone can run in and kick goals from the midfield.
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The_Yeti, Bizkit, cletus, DazzElle said You Beaut

cletus Can we win? 6 years 10 months ago #80

cletus
There is absolutely no way, that anyone could, would nor should, define our forward line as a "functioning forward line". And it has been that way for some years! Even when Pav was there.
When they start putting a target down there, forward of the play, and the little blokes get front and centre of the target, someone can start talking about us having the semblance of a forward line.
... And I really can't see why the above is not worth a try.?? Roly seems to resist a basic forward structure at all costs.
Its unbelievable!!
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Rhufus said You Beaut

Blue1red1 Can we win? 6 years 10 months ago #81

Blue1red1
Gee it would have been nice to have had Yarran in there this year.
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RideoftheVagaries Can we win? 6 years 10 months ago #82

RideoftheVagaries
The hypothesis I'm putting up as an alternative is that the forward system is there to win games as a priority, and there may be some robbing Peter to pay Paul. If that system wasn't in play, whose to say that we wouldn't have got blown off the park, like just about every other time in years past we used to go to Geelong say.

On Saturday, we had a forward line predominantly made up of players trying to find their feet, Ballantyne coming back from a long layoff and Walters trying to do everything. It's going to sputter more than it purrs for a while yet, even under the most favourable circumstances.

Look whether you like the look of the way the team plays or not, Lyon's record is still a fair way above the next best win/loss record of a Freo coach, so for all the intangible post-engineered interpretations of why he loses the game or the players win it, it does suggest he knows something useful about coaching.
;p
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LoyalSupporter Can we win? 6 years 10 months ago #83

LoyalSupporter
So easy to blame the coach you lot but it is the PLAYERS that choose to:
. Kick to our smallest player outnumbered 2 or 3 to 1
. Kick to the DISADAVANTAGE of our player who then either gets cleaned up or the ball spoilt
. Drop easy "sitter" marks as if they have iron gloves or are trying to bring ball to ground Iinstead oftaking the mark
. Allow themselves to be blocked easily instead of running around or through their opponents on way to a mark

The player delivery choice & kicking skills have been so frustrating for a few seasons now.

Would also be refreshing to have the occasional umpire who penalised the opposition for blatant holding or blocking like they do AGAINST us.
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cletus Can we win? 6 years 10 months ago #84

cletus
C'mon Roly, ..fair go! You DO have something to do with all that...
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