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TOPIC: So...

purplepower So... 6 years 10 months ago #29

purplepower
So we developing the coaches....how long is this rebuilding going to take
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The_Yeti So... 6 years 10 months ago #30

The_Yeti
Young coaches? Thats comedy gold right there.

The problem we have with the 'premiership window and the rebuild' theory is that it lets the coaches off the hook.

In my view, and I admit I'm not getting paid a million a year to come up with excuses as to why we are underperforming, a coach should be capable of getting the best out of the players he's got. A brilliant coach would get the best out of the players he has and be innovative in his methods.

What we get are coaches who say 'we don't have the cattle to do this'. That translates to "we don't have the players to do this the only way I know how and I can't figure out another way".

When we had attacking players, we had to rebuild, rejig, restump, rebulldust them to be able to play a defensive, work intensive, lock down style of play. In other words, play harder not smarter. But we started out from the default position of 'not having the cattle'

The rules changed and now 'we don't have the cattle - again'. Apparently we will never have the cattle if we are always 2 seasons behind the game. Remember that bit about innovative. At a million bucks a season I think a bit of innovation is hardly a stretch.

Another bit of innovation would be addressing deficiencies that even the mug punters can see. You know, little things like players being able to hit a target 25 meters away. Its a radical proposition but there ya go. Things like not picking guys whose kicking skills are below par and have stayed that way without being addressed (I'm looking at you Sutcliffe, Dawson etc) Things like not addressing skill deficiencies...ever. Things like not bombing blindly into the forward 50 because we have no structure that provides tall marking forwards actually in the forward. We currently have 3 marking forwards with reasonable tanks and no game plan that uses their mobility to lead into vacant space. Oh and things like not kicking backwards into our defensive 50 before we invariably turn it over.

Wow, all those radical ideas that are somehow simple common sense yet have evaded our 'young coaches' for how many seasons? If you are taking a million a year to do a job, you should be expected to produce a million bucks or value. Buggered if I can see anything even resembling an attempt at anything like that.
Egurls Suck!
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purple kit, cletus, pollyanna, okeedokee, paul4471, DazzElle, Raglan Matt, Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

pollyanna So... 6 years 10 months ago #31

pollyanna
I've been watching Collingwood's approach this year. In my view, they have the best structural form of any side in the competition. Their players, for the most part, weren't up to it. Then they clued on and they've manufactured some great wins - against the odds (in some cases), on occasion (such as their game against us recently) they were impervious to losing.

In my view it's not the cattle, it's the coaching. I guess I subscribe to the belief that the game has passed by RoLy - we fluke some marvellous passionate wins only on the collective momentum of the players on the field. When he tries to build a structure around that we flounder. I'm generalising, but I don't think our coaching staff are innovative or belief driven at all. It's not always going to come from the playing group on the field during a game - it might, haphazardly - but I reckon Buckley has correctly read the state of play and built a strategy that will result in winning (more often than not). Once the younger team gels around it, they'll be consistently good.

We could be too.
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okeedokee said You Beaut

Corporal Agarn So... 6 years 10 months ago #32

Corporal Agarn
Just going over those sides on the slide and nobody has mentioned the slime. They're certain to finish above us this year but they've got big problems ahead imo. Mitchell, Priddis, Lecras, Butler, McKenzie on last legs. Non performers in Wellingham, Hill, Schofield, Jetta, Cripps and guys who haven't come on like Sheed and Duggan. Top this off with a bare cupboard of exciting young up and comers at EP and I don't things look to rosy at Meth Coast.
Well I'd very much hope and think so anyway.
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Drubbing So... 6 years 10 months ago #33

Drubbing
Lyon hasn't addressed the kicking and handball skills of Dawson, Sutcliffe and Danyell et al because there's nothing to develop. You get what they got. You don't get to make them betterer. Not at their age.

Drilling skills into those who are still developing their skills is a worthwhile pursuit. But ability is a finite thing. If everyone was capable of being Danger-filled or Fyfe with the right coaching, everyone would make the effort to do it.

Lyon appears to make little effort with anyone, and spends all his time on strategy, structures and deckchair organisation.
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Raglan Matt So... 6 years 10 months ago #34

Raglan Matt
The days of having a game plan to beat the world, then recruiting the players to implement it are long gone, due to the draft restrictions. These days you need to recruit the best players available, and develop a game plan to suit their style. THAT is where we fall down.
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The_Yeti, paul4471 said You Beaut

FDB So... 6 years 10 months ago #35

FDB
Shane, I didn't mean to imply we can force players to improve by just giving them multiple seasons of getting a guernsey without question a la Sutcliffe. What I was getting at is hardly new, but to elaborate:

1) How do you know if a player has genuine talent without giving them a chance to show it?
B) How do you know if that player is useful to our team without giving them multiple games in a row to find where they fit best, and develop playing relationships with others going through the same process (and the old guard of course)?
iii) How is it that we are still asking these questions?
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okeedokee So... 6 years 10 months ago #36

okeedokee
We've been on a rebuild for the past twenny year's.
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larkin So... 6 years 10 months ago #37

larkin
I'm ready to be pleasantly surprised by the rest of the season.
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blockerhall So... 6 years 10 months ago #38

blockerhall
Should have built the ETAF at Armadale.

I agree with the screaming fowl, its hard to draw a line through where they are at, and I'm not convinced about anyone in that side except JK and McGovern. Their 2015, our 2013, sort of a two year lag on our performance is possible. Downwards certainly.

I think Collingwood have been the most consistent side in the AFL this year. Certainly consistent effort. Agreed with the crazy lady lady that Buckley seems to have the best read on effort-based performance in 2017, and a plan that appears to work for allcomers.
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cletus So... 6 years 10 months ago #39

cletus
I find this talk about the brilliance of Buckley quite amazing!! (...I respect those opinions & insights though...)
I unfortunately know a fair few Collingwood 'cretan' supporters. Not one of them wants Buckley to stay on...and many want Eddie out as well.
Maybe its just my part of the world.?? - Does any one else experience this in your area?...Bucks is a five letter dirty word around these parts.....?? ...Beginning to think its something in our water, and we think all coaches are hopeless and responsible for everything.... :))
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blockerhall So... 6 years 10 months ago #40

blockerhall
I would hold the use of brilliance and Buckley in the same sentence. I don't really rate Collingwood, rate their squad worse than ours overall. But this year they haven't lost a game by more than 23 points, i believe. They really don't fall away. And kicked like rubbish for most of the year so far. Very good, and more importantly, brave, against us.
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cletus So... 6 years 10 months ago #41

cletus
Agree with that BH....they definitely "showed some doogs" against us....
But they are still in the Hawthorn/ Nth Melbourne/ Slime mode of "building", and thats where Buckley has failed. Look at their injury list, and there is a fair few old blokes on it. Only Rupert Wills is young and injured, and whilst he will be a gun player, theres not a lot else there.
...Except Mayney....!
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