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TOPIC: Toilet Duck

Dockerplus Toilet Duck 7 years 1 month ago #29

Dockerplus
From the game stats sheet:
Of the 44 players who took the field in the saints v slime game 19 players had 15 or less disposals.
The umpires gifted the the slime with an extra 15 free kicks.

Dear Mr Simpson
You're right it wasn't luck. It was the umpires.
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zorro Toilet Duck 7 years 1 month ago #30

zorro
And that's exactly the point, Dockerplus.
Imagine if you had a player who got 15 possessions, all of them contested, and kicked 3 goals - he'd make your best player list. The Saints were playing 23 men, and the extra one was one of the best players on the field. Roamed up and down the ground, never tired, won the ball in close, in tight contested situations.

No wonder the Saints blew up in the end. It was horrible to watch.

More power to the Crows, it must be said. Hawthorn had an extra player like that too, and still lost (they are really on the skids). And so did the Bullies (as they did, almost exactly, in last year's grand final). They're the three teams that regularly get this advantage - though none so consistently and for so long as the Eagles.

It's time - it really is - that the AFL and its umpiring department stopped talking about "anomalies" and accepted the facts; there is systematic bias in umpiring that goes way way beyond "home ground advantage", and if they are going to administer a respectable competition they need to recognise it, work out why it happens, and do something about it.
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The_Yeti, rogerrocks, Noddy, Tropical, slammen, Dockermus, Raglan Matt, Corporal Agarn, Raybeez, Wizard33 said You Beaut

point less Toilet Duck 7 years 1 month ago #31

point less
Dockerplus, everything about the slime is tainted including their umpires
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Wizard33 Toilet Duck 7 years 1 month ago #32

Wizard33
Agree Zorro and I've been saying his for years. Simply flabbergasted last night. Until such time the clubs on the rough end collect enough evidence and start making formal challenges, nothing will change.

Everyone just turns a blind eye.
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Wizard33 Toilet Duck 7 years 1 month ago #33

Wizard33
Kennedy is a disgrace. Hands in the back paid against him and the very next play does the same thing to the opposition defender and nothing paid, 2 goals!

Holding the ball, 3 clear holding (incorrect disposal) tackles in a row by the saints, Curlly slime dumped and nothing.

The arrogant little ass wipe Yeo, descent, mouthing off to the umps, if that was Ballas!
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rogerrocks said You Beaut

Dockermus Toilet Duck 7 years 1 month ago #34

Dockermus
Mostly, what AFL umpires actually do during a game is a lot less about actual umpiring and a lot more about adjudicating.

It's long past time the AFL realised they are a sports governance organisation, and not a commercialised money-making machine.

A new era of even-handed, professional sports governance could start with a grass roots overhaul of the umpiring department.

Or they could carry on talking about twilight grand finals, until we all give up complaining.
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Raglan Matt, Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

Alvin Prpl Toilet Duck 7 years 1 month ago #35

Alvin Prpl
Saw this on a Saints page, I can't be bothered checking but it sounds about right.

"Free kick count v eagles last 3 games, 70 to 27. Just sayin"
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Drubbing Toilet Duck 7 years 1 month ago #36

Drubbing
The AFL answer to that would be Saints should stop giving so many frees away...

As far as they're concerned, the system works. And anyone disagreeing will be fined heavily. Because to everyone else, it bloody obvious.

A past docker has told me they put up with biased umps for years, and it sucked the life out of many of them trying to play against it.
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rogerrocks, Raglan Matt said You Beaut

Quasimodo Toilet Duck 7 years 1 month ago #37

Quasimodo
They made WWE referees look competent. Kennedy could hit the defender with a chair shot and still be awArded the free kick.
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Raglan Matt said You Beaut

PurpleHornet Toilet Duck 7 years 1 month ago #38

PurpleHornet
Yep. The whole umpiring thing can be perplexing and I must admit I was left shaking my head watching the slime on Saturday night. But, if you extend some of the arguments above to their logical conclusion, we are left with a conspiracy theory that the Umpires are going out of their way to favour certain teams.

Now, I don't own a tin foil hat, my kids are vaccinated and I believe the Moon landings actually occurred, so I can't agree with the notion that the AFL (or whoever) are directing the umpires to be biased to certain teams. In the case of the Slime, why would a Victorian based organization direct umpires (a high percentage of them Victorian themselves) to be biased in favour of one WA team, but not the other? It doesn't make sense. I think the article below makes some good points.

www.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-03/busting-t...409774?section=sport
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RideoftheVagaries Toilet Duck 7 years 4 weeks ago #39

RideoftheVagaries
Myths busted: 0. The article is looking at stats from this year only, lame. The trends have been going on for years, across a number of different game styles. Also the ole "free kick tallies don't have to be even" chestnut is a nothing argument, it's observational at best, facile more likely at break even.

Look you don't have to reach into conspiracy theories to explain the discrepancies. Some teams have a penchant for milking, while unconscious bias (which can include crowd noise, instructions from the hierarchy - eg. "The Ballantyne Situation" - and the general media vibe as it were) is a well-documented phenomenon that the environment and conditions umpires ply their trade in is a perfect hotbed for.

p.s. Also another bias that we can all be subject to is the halo effect, and surprise surprise if we don't get lumped in the same bowl as the WC (by a couple of coaches noless).
;p
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Raglan Matt said You Beaut

thegeniusthatis Toilet Duck 7 years 4 weeks ago #40

thegeniusthatis
Sorry, Purplehornet, but I too disagree that this article dispels anything.
We know we haven't done badly by the umps to start off this season - i don't believe our games have poorly officiated.
However, the Bulldogs genuinely are the new AFL darlings and the narrative of their grand final heroics was set in stone as soon as they qualified for it.
The Toilet clearly train to receive favourable umpiring - it has got stuff all to do with their style of play.
The big gripe people have with umpiring is not that one team gets more than their fair share, it is the fact that what is repeatedly paid one way is not consistent for each team. It is this that riles the fans and draws Montagna and Membrey to individually approach the umpires during a game for clarification of whether treatment is fair, not necessarily equal.
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thegeniusthatis Toilet Duck 7 years 4 weeks ago #41

thegeniusthatis
And I meant to add that it is nearly always the free kicks that aren't paid that annoy the most. Unfortunately it isn't possible to provide a stat for that, so we have to go back to the free kick discrepancies.
Also, it is where free kicks are paid. Sandi, MoM, Mike and Pav rarely received the frees that are are almost always paid to Darling, Kennedy and co. I don't expect this to change any time soon.
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Raglan Matt said You Beaut

Raglan Matt Toilet Duck 7 years 4 weeks ago #42

Raglan Matt
TGTI that is why the rules of the game are now written the way they are. So the AwFL and the umpires advisor have some excuses to fall back on. Subconcious bias/influence (eg Ballantyne/Walters ) is still bias.
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