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Pick 3 Pre saeason and Rookie

TOPIC: Pick 3 Pre saeason and Rookie

Raglan Matt Pick 3 Pre saeason and Rookie 7 years 5 months ago #15

Raglan Matt
Jezza's right, for every hit there is a miss amongst all clubs. Keep a copy of what has been said about this years draft and refer to it over the next 3 years. There will be plenty of " Good prospect as a key forward if we can get him at 20 - 25" (Fyfe) "Take a chance on him if he slides to 50" (Neale). " Worth a risk at 70ish, could be handy round the goals"( Walters) as well as the "Certain number 1 pick"
Do the names Andrew Gaff, Tom Scully, Jack Watts, Chris Masten, Scott Gumbleton, Beau Dowler, Marcus Drum, Richard Tambling, Ryley Dunn, Luke Brennan, Luke Molan ring any bells?
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bpurple said You Beaut

Bizkit Pick 3 Pre saeason and Rookie 7 years 5 months ago #16

Bizkit
For sure, because the best players from last years draft were the late picks like Mills (3), Weitering (1). Parish (5), Schache (2) and Oliver (4). Who needs early picks?
Nathan: When did you get balls?
Simon: I've always had balls you've just never seen them.
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Jezza Pick 3 Pre saeason and Rookie 7 years 5 months ago #17

Jezza
Mills is an academy player. He doesn't count. Sydney have groomed him to their way of thinking. Weitering is rubbish. I rate A. Pearce a better player had he been fit since being drafted. As for the others you mentioned Biz, they're rubbish as well. We'll revisit this thread in 12 months. Other than Mills, the others will have a shite year. With all the Intel that the recruiters have complied over the years to draft a kid, you'd think they get more right than wrong. There's no guarantees if you'd have the No. 1 pick. All it means that you've won the wooden spoon that year and good luck with the first pick. By the way, Carlton's plethora of No.1 picks in the last decade have got them no closer to a premiership and I'm going to make a bold statement here. GWS will not win a premiership while Leon Cameron is the coach. Their countless top end draft picks will eventually whittle away to other clubs. As for Gold Coast, they'll be the next Fitzroy of the modern era.
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Raglan Matt Pick 3 Pre saeason and Rookie 7 years 5 months ago #18

Raglan Matt
Revisit those names in 5 years Biz.
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Lazza040 said You Beaut

Docker by the Sea Pick 3 Pre saeason and Rookie 7 years 5 months ago #19

Docker by the Sea
I think the point that was made that resonates with me most is our draft position before the trade period and then after. We have maintained a top ten position got a second round position and recruited good young role players. The assumption that any rebuild must be pinned around pick three instead of seven is flimsy. How would we have achieved a plethora of picks to achieve better? We could again finish bottom four and get more next year but would risk losing Fyfe, who is the type of player to build around.

I would have to check but the guys taken would have been taken at similar positions as their original draft position. If taken lower as in Hamling have demonstrated performance above their initial position.
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blockerhall Pick 3 Pre saeason and Rookie 7 years 5 months ago #20

blockerhall
Gee, Weitering had a great rookie year in a KP for an average club. Everytime i saw him I thought he was a gun, and will only get better, barring injury
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Bizkit, slammen, Corporal Agarn, winteriscoming, markh295 said You Beaut

Raglan Matt Pick 3 Pre saeason and Rookie 7 years 5 months ago #21

Raglan Matt
I can't for the life of me work out how it is better to pick unproven 18-19 year olds ahead of proven 22-23 year olds when we are trying to improve our team. If Hill, Kersten, Hamling and co were 28 - 30 yo fair enough.
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Detox Pick 3 Pre saeason and Rookie 7 years 5 months ago #22

Detox
Biz.. those guys are pretty good but will they be any better than 6-10 in that draft year.. not sure.. time will tell
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Corporal Agarn Pick 3 Pre saeason and Rookie 7 years 5 months ago #23

Corporal Agarn
if Weitering is rubbish after his promising start in a terrible team, what does that make Apeness? Something worse than rubbish I guess.
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Lazza040 said You Beaut

Bizkit Pick 3 Pre saeason and Rookie 7 years 5 months ago #24

Bizkit
Come on Jezza, do you watch any footy that isn't Freo? Those players all showed absolute bundles this year and went top 5 for good reason, they are incredibly talented players who will succeed at the top level. You can point out the unicorns all day long and say it's possible to get a star a little later or there's a chance a top picked player may struggle but that doesn't mean the overwhelming majority of star players aren't early picks. Even Fyfe is still an early pick at the 20 mark which is the start of the second round.

As for our picks before and after the trade period, saying we had a 1st and second round pick and still do so that's a win is being very loose with the description of those picks. There's almost 20 kids picked between each round (more in most early rounds with academy picks and compensation picks) which is a lot of talent gone between picks, especially when you've effectively gone from pick 22 or 23 and then have to wait another dozen talented kids before we get our second chance to find the next best at what is almost the third round and where the talent is likely to be significantly diminished.

B Hill is proven in his role at the Hawks while they were dominating every other side but I can't see any of the others as proven talent. Meanwhile the draftees have been playing footy at very competitive levels where talent scouts are able to assess their abilities to an incredible degree. They are pretty well proven and fit much better into a rebuild.
Nathan: When did you get balls?
Simon: I've always had balls you've just never seen them.
Nathan: That's the gayest thing I've ever heard.
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Detox Pick 3 Pre saeason and Rookie 7 years 5 months ago #25

Detox
Brad Hill might get a lot better.. I reckon his brother only started really winning his own ball a couple of years ago - before that he was just an outside player.. Brad seems like he is only now starting to fill out and grow into himself.. After all he is only 23.. Players do become elite at a later age after being traded.. The one that springs to mind and probably haunts the Hawks is Josh Kennedy.. Pick 40 in the draft, moved to Sydney at the age of 23 and then became a superstar.. Something similar from Brad Hill would be nice but I would just settle for a pretty handy player that gets on the spread and is extremely hard to catch.
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slammen, Raglan Matt said You Beaut

Docker by the Sea Pick 3 Pre saeason and Rookie 7 years 5 months ago #26

Docker by the Sea
Agreed Biz with your assessment of top 5 last year based on first year of development but previous years is far from this conclusive.
2014 none of the top 5 go close to Isaac Henley Paddy McCartin will be awesome if concussion doesn't get the better of him. There is no big man in this crop that would come close to him though. Toby McLean at 26 and Caleb Daniel at 46 are interesting as well. Lever at 14 and Mitch McGovern at 43 seem good value.

2013 on first impressions seems to back up your point of view with Tom Boyd, Josh Kell, Bontempelli and maybe Billings being top quality. Two months ago Tom Boyd was not thought of in this class. Patrick Cripps at 13 is also very good.

2012 the top 5 seem to be much better than most of the rest in what to me looks like a very poor year.

2011 it could very well be argued that many players taken lower in the draft have turned out better than the top 5. The top 5 were Patton, Coniglio, Tyson, Hoskin Elliott and Buntine compete these to Toby Greene 11, Sam Dochery at 12, Taylor Adams 13, Devon Smith 14, Clay Smith 17, Tom Mitchell 21. Interestingly Hamling and Kersten were taken in this draft at 32 & 34 similar to what we gave up to get them.

I am sure from last years draft there will be players come from lower down the draft order to pass some of the 4 players you have listed. Looking at the 2011 draft, I stand by my statement regarding 3,4 or 5 years for players to develop. Most of the players listed from 2011 although showing flashes of their talent before this year have only this year really begun to impose themselves.
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Bizkit Pick 3 Pre saeason and Rookie 7 years 5 months ago #27

Bizkit
Stephen was going in and getting the footy himself in his second and third year and getting told to stay on the outside because he was getting beaten up by the bigger bodies. Last season and this where we've lost some mids he has played inside as well and found his own ball again. Brad has never done that and does not like body contact at all, I can't see him ever doing the same as Stephen. Brad has a smaller body and has been as filled out as he gets for a few years. He's not 19/20, he's 23 and fully grown.

As for JPK he was a father son pick which is why he was taken third round and was 21 when he was traded (because he wasn't able to get opportunities in a strong Hawk side). He is far from a relatable case to B Hill.

EDIT
Don't forget they were compromised drafts back then so it'd be the likes of Hogan and co who are the real top picks from those years. Of the 2014 top 5 the only one who hasn't worked out and shown plenty is Pickett, the rest have proven the potential to be stars like Petracca and Brayshaw. Heeney was a later pick because he was an academy pick that year.
Nathan: When did you get balls?
Simon: I've always had balls you've just never seen them.
Nathan: That's the gayest thing I've ever heard.
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Detox Pick 3 Pre saeason and Rookie 7 years 5 months ago #28

Detox
Well I would have to disagree with you on Stephen Hill, I see that he really worked hard on the contested style of his game and it didn't come naturally to him.. Also Josh Kennedy was never going to be a really high pick like a Heeney (possible number 1 pick).. He wasn't that highly rated by the Hawks because he was traded to the Swans along with teammate Ben McGlynn for picks 39, 46 and 70.. There are many stories of people improving after the age of 23.. Could Joel Hamling be our Josh Gibson? Probably not but its almost as likely as pick 23 being worse than Murray Newman, Tayte Pears, Ryan Cook, Sean Rusling or Matthew Moody.

We will have to see but I definitely see Brad Hill improving, don't think he will ever be superstar but he will become a more mature footballer.
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