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TOPIC: Roly

RideoftheVagaries Roly 7 years 8 months ago #43

RideoftheVagaries
I'm not the one claiming the flag certainties. But you're right all this stuff about "what ifs" and "could be's" is fluff and exists only in our heads. For all the arguments that someone could of done a better job, we'll never ever know.

What we do know has happened is that Lyon is the only one to have coached Freo to a GF, which if I'm not mistaken, is the only place you can win a flag from. While he's been coach we've been contenders for at least 3 years consecutively, whereas before that there's only one year we could've even remotely been considered a contender (and there's a line of argument that they only came into contention after the coach took a large step away from the reins). So I'm willing to take that body of evidence as having greater weight than solitary years like 2010 or this year.

It's also worth noting that Harvey also had two years in which he had an opportunity to mold the side and farm the draft before 2010. I reckon, even though the side never got the ultimate success under Lyon, that he has the runs on the board and it's a totally acceptable proposition to give him a period to reset after those years of intensity and effort.
;p
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guy smiley Roly 7 years 8 months ago #44

guy smiley
So you accept the premise of the what ifs and could be's, then dive headfirst into some.

Rational analysis: Freo's list has never been better than it has been under Lyon. A process of steady development regarding talent and maturing players got it there. Harvey had the beginnings of that list available to him. Beyond that I'm not interested in comparing the two coaches. I'm just comfortable with the idea that Roly has done a comprehensive job of drilling a team relentlessly to play a precise game and that in itself has many blinded to the limitations of that style and his apparent inability to adapt and move within a framework of evolving game styles.

Or, he's good but he's not quite good enough.

Contrasting that is his obvious disregard for the media and as an extension of that, the fans. He plays a cynical game with fast talk of buying in, looking to improve and other attractive buzzwords that belong in a boardroom full of marketing bozos. Oh... that's right, I forgot.
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fourthump, Bizkit said You Beaut

Bizkit Roly 7 years 8 months ago #45

Bizkit
I don't have a dislike of RL, he is an adequate coach who has a certain way of doing things that can be very effective. I don't believe that strategy can be ultimately successful and the past 5 years have proven that with fast paced teams almost always tearing his structures apart. The media and fan adulation for him is something that does annoy me when he isn't the messiah and the perfect coach.

I also think an incredibly talented team carried his ultimately failing structures for a lot of it and now some of those players aren't on the field his strategies fall completely to pieces and he has no answer except a few buzz words as Guy points out. In terms of actual coaching, I've seen very little of it this season to suggest he is the best person to carry us forward and rebuild enough to mount a premiership challenge.

There's still plenty of talent in our side and there's absolutely no way we should only have 3 wins this season with our list but RL seems to get away with little criticism by anyone when a much larger portion of it should be falling on his shoulders.
Nathan: When did you get balls?
Simon: I've always had balls you've just never seen them.
Nathan: That's the gayest thing I've ever heard.
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DazzElle said You Beaut

larkin Roly 7 years 8 months ago #46

larkin
Thats a bit unkind. I've watched most of his pressers. He doesn't slag players and often says he and the coaching group need to get better. That of course doesn't make him a good coach. I reckon he has done well with what he has available and lets be honest our best have often been injured or not 100% in the finals. This year he has come unstuck (largely) because of the numbers of newbies he has been playing. Our recruiting has been unluckly or made wrong choices. We are not close enough to the club to know what is really happening inside. I was one of the few here to welcome Roly ... I still do. But I reserve the right to jump off.
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Macca4, Raglan Matt said You Beaut

Noddy Roly 7 years 8 months ago #47

Noddy
According to Roly, one of his failings this season was that we got preseason training wrong and didn't have enough endurance. I think he's a good coach, but after a season of fairy floss, that statement doesn't fill me with confidence.....and then he's given a Hollywood contract extension??
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shane Roly 7 years 8 months ago #48

shane
I think they got the pre-season wrong, lost 4 games in a row and then thought 'Bugger it. We'll have another go next year' and haven't done any work since.
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goodie, darthmarto, DaPav, Davo, Noddy, PurpleMom said You Beaut

Noddy Roly 7 years 8 months ago #49

Noddy
I don't understand how you can get fitness before the season starts but after that your stuffed if you didn't? I mean there's 23 weeks to do something about it??
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somethingstupid Roly 7 years 8 months ago #50

somethingstupid
I think they got the pre-season wrong, lost 4 games in a row, lost a whole bunch of star players to injury in the course of it, and then thought 'Bugger it. We'll have another go next year' and haven't done any work since.
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DaPav said You Beaut

guy smiley Roly 7 years 8 months ago #51

guy smiley
I think if you're going to tell people you spent so much time on skills during pre season that you forgot to look at fitness you look silly any way you get looked at. But of course, if you spent the preseason being relaxed and doing nothing then you'd be so chilled out it wouldn't bother you what you said.
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Flag_2005 Roly 7 years 8 months ago #52

Flag_2005
To think we were only a safely held Tom Sheridan mark away from a GF appearance last year as well (without even pulling out the broken legged superstar reference).
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Raglan Matt said You Beaut

Bizkit Roly 7 years 8 months ago #53

Bizkit
What was the excuse when the fast running Bulldogs were up 7 goals to 1 in the first quarter of Rd 1? Or the following week when the Gold Coast were up by 5 goals at half time? I don't think the players were that far behind the 8 ball fitness wise and injuries weren't much of a factor let alone playing any kids.

We still had prettty much our finals side from 2015 that finished top of the ladder but fast paced sides ran rings around RL's structures like the Hawks had done for the previous few years.
Nathan: When did you get balls?
Simon: I've always had balls you've just never seen them.
Nathan: That's the gayest thing I've ever heard.
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Rhufus, Burton said You Beaut

The_Yeti Roly 7 years 8 months ago #54

The_Yeti
When Roly said 'working on our skills' my first thought wasn't 'working on removing what skills we had'

Shows why I'm not an incredibly highly paid coach.

Silly me, I thought we were supposed to improve our skills.
Egurls Suck!
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Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

RideoftheVagaries Roly 7 years 8 months ago #55

RideoftheVagaries
Guy you're going to have to give specific examples of where I've indulged in some "what ifs" etc (otherwise I may have to assume your analysis has been blindsided by emotion :-) ). And I never said I disliked what ifs could of's, just that I try to take them for what they are.

A lot of the other points you make is in the perceptual realm that is very much open to conjecture. Like the whole cattle vs coach thing, however talented you think the list is is kind of not very unquantifiable except maybe through wins on the board. We do know no-one has managed to get a sustained period of contention as a coach of Fremantle. How could we even say that was the most talented list we've ever had without the wins? Perhaps it was the talent pulling him along, but we also know in our closest ever tilt at the cup, 2013, Pavlich played 12 games, McPharlin 16 and Sandi 10.

To be fair it's not been that obvious as to the cause of not getting over the line, but I'm not sure whether there's been too many coaches to get closer without winning one. Plenty of people would argue that with another key forward or two that we might of gotten over the line (FYI this isn't a what if but a statement of one clouding issue).

I myself do think that the gamestyle is capable of winning a premiership cup. If it's that successful all other times then there's a good case to think it will be successful at the GF (including numerous examples of close GFs). I think it does have a limited lifespan, due to its ultimate erosion of decision making in the players, but that's something I've had a go at mainly in hindsight.

And c'mon Bizkit. It's easy to say you have no dislike for Lyon, but there seems to be an endless list of posts that take a pop at him or interpret what has happened in a negative reflection of Lyon that might say you're not the biggest fan. Of course it's your prerogative, but you may as well own it.
;p
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Macca4, maynefan said You Beaut

Flag_2005 Roly 7 years 8 months ago #56

Flag_2005
If you were at the Gold Coast game you will have immediately realised that the new centre square set up they were using was a complete failure and that our fitness was lacking.

We've been one of the fittest teams in the comp the past 4 seasons but out of our depth this year. You don't think Ross might be qualified to see that we stuffed up that aspect of our pre-season?
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