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The 2017 Bounce Back Myth?

TOPIC: The 2017 Bounce Back Myth?

Corporal Agarn The 2017 Bounce Back Myth? 7 years 9 months ago #1

Corporal Agarn
It was mentioned by Exceed in another post and I tend to agree. There are a number of people here who think we will be straight back to finals contention next year when we overcome our injuries. Firstly lets go over those. Yes, we have had a few players out for short periods but so does every club.
Fyfe-obvious. Say no more
Sandi-sorely missed buy will be 32-33 next year.
Johnno-injured more than playing nowadays. Also in early 30s and close to the end.
Bennell-could be great, but also talk that he may never recover properly from recurring calf injuries.
A. Pearce-great in the future but still young and inexperienced.
After that there are no big names consistently missing through injury, just a lot of pinch hitters or young unproven players.
Then if you look at our regular players there is a swag of under achievers, foot soldiers or not up to standard AFL players. e.g. Mayne, Suban, Sheridan, Sutcliffe, Pearce, Dawson
As for the youngsters Weller and Tucker are not really contributing enough at the moment to warrant a game and the jury is still out on Langdon, Hughes, Apeness, Grey and some others due to injury or inconsistent form.
There are massive holes in our big man department in all areas-ruck,forwards, backmen. Yes, we have some promise there in Tabener, Pearce and Collins but to expect them to turn us into finals contenders with their inexperience and lack of support isn't going to happen. And out of four genuine ruckmen in our squad only one is any good and he's 32!
The only positives and players that have progressed as far as I can see are Neale, Crozier, Blakely & Collins.

Would those key injuries above have got us into the finals if they were fit this year? Very doubtful.
I also can't see how we are going to plug so many gaps in the draft this year particularly as one of picks(for Bennell)is already gone.
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goodie, Docker by the Sea said You Beaut

DockerKnockers The 2017 Bounce Back Myth? 7 years 9 months ago #2

DockerKnockers
If Freo have a healthy list in 2017, then I will be amazed if they don't make the finals.

The impact of Sandilands on Freo's results still appears to be unappreciated by many around here.
Freo lost on Saturday largely due to the monstering they received in the midfield. The presence of a fit Sandilands, Fyfe, Mundy and Barlow has a huge impact on that.

Sandilands will be 34 in 2017. But excluding this years' Nic Knee injury to the ribs, Sandilands has been very fit in recent years. He played 23 games in both 2014 & 2015. His domination in the ruck can be best highlighted by looking at the team totals for Hit Outs in 2015. Freo had 1405 For, but more importantly only 719 Against. That is a Hit Out differential advantage of 686. The next best in 2015 was West Coast with a differential of 334 (1295 For - 961 Against). This is why Sandilands is still the most dominant Ruckman in the AFL. So far, in 2016, Freo's Hit Out differential is negaitve 25 and the best in the competition is currently West Coast with a differential advantage of 199.
I have previously posted the statistical data showing a very strong correlation between Sandilands playing and Fremantle wins. Likewise, the correlation between Freo's midfield's performance and Freo's wins.

I accept there is no guarentee that Freo will not again suffer major injuries in 2017, or the likes of Sandi, Fyfe, Bennell, Johnno, A.Pearce may not return to their best form due to injuries, but I really
struggle with how anybody can mount a reasonable argument that a fit Freo squad will not produce a finals appearance in 2017.

(And for the record, as corrected many times before by myself and others, Freo gave up their 2016 2nd round pick in the trade deal that resulted in Yarran and Balic being drafted. It had nothing to do with the Bennell deal.)
Gone to bigfooty where there's fewer Docker Haters.
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Raglan Matt said You Beaut

hypen The 2017 Bounce Back Myth? 7 years 9 months ago #3

hypen
I think ten will come in next year from last game.

Sandi, Fyfe, Bennell, Yarran, Johnson, Morabito, Barlow, Pearce, McCarthy and Balic. Balic was as high as top three in draft calculations till he hurt himself. More than half the team replaced with quality.

Swaps
Sandi for Griff
Bennell for D Pearce
Yarran for Pav
Johnson for Collins
Morabito for Sheridan
Barlow for Tucker
Pearce for Dawson
McCarthy for Mayne
Balic for i dunno, dont say Sutcliffe as he is a stopping back who plays tall and small.

There are a handful of underperformers in the side at present. Yeah I think we can.
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purple kit said You Beaut

pollyanna The 2017 Bounce Back Myth? 7 years 9 months ago #4

pollyanna
I don't see it. Everyone keeps needling through the playing list, rightly (or wrongly) giving an assessment on the quality of players, lamenting those that are missing. We had those players - minus Harley - at the start of the year and we got pansted by everyone. We had Fyfe, Sandi, Johnno and we were well below what our opposition served up.

It's coaching and game strategy - our first three games repeatedly screamed this to everyone. We could only beat hospital-case squads and come close to a coupe of mediocre teams since then. Unless there's some sort of miracle turn-around in our game day strategy, we'll stay where we are. Let's face it, we've had the same pre-season time as any other team and we've grunted away pretending that we're having another pre-season during the home/away (which is utter baloney - we should all know this). Then we'll have another pre-season (as will every other team) to get it right. Without a massive change in our list managers, coaches, coach and support staff we'll stay where we are - maybe rise to Gold Coast level, at a stretch to Deaf Cheats level (bottom of the mid ladder).

All the baloney about Cam coming in and some clever trading isn't going to validate the Belief in Steve Hard Sell which is being peddled about - that's all about seat renters for 2017. It's actually quite simple - the game moved on from our Big Thinkers at Parry Street and we got left behind, way (way) behind. Change the thinking you change the direction.
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Bizkit, DazzElle, Lazza040, purplepower, Burton said You Beaut

purplepower The 2017 Bounce Back Myth? 7 years 9 months ago #5

purplepower
The manegment pretty much looked after each other by securing themselves long term contracts.....the tone has changed and the blame will fall mostly on the players
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Jezza The 2017 Bounce Back Myth? 7 years 9 months ago #6

Jezza
I'm of the believe that, if drafting since 2008, got us the GF in 2013, then drafting in 2016, should see us challenging in 2019-2020. Though, it's not impossible to be playing finals as soon as next year. Eagles went from wooden spooners to top 4 in 2010-2011. I'm keeping the faith.
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darthmarto The 2017 Bounce Back Myth? 7 years 9 months ago #7

darthmarto
You'd expect our bottom 4 finish would give us a fairly supportive draw.

Combined with the 2017 season preparation commencing in May 2016 for some players, I'd be expecting a very dramatic improvement.
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Morgan, DocDocker said You Beaut

zorro The 2017 Bounce Back Myth? 7 years 9 months ago #8

zorro
Sorry, Polly and others, that's crap. No Sandi (suspended) in rd I, and the Doggies played out of their skin, Sandi was nicknatkneed early in rd 3, fyfe was gawn, Mundy went down. By the second half of the Blues game we had one of our seven AA's from 2015 PF left on the park.
Look, I'm not saying it'll be a cakewalk, but anyone who thinks we can't bounce back is nursing an agenda.
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hypen, fradonjan, Jebediah55, rogerrocks, Macca4, DockerKnockers, somethingstupid said You Beaut

Drubbing The 2017 Bounce Back Myth? 7 years 9 months ago #9

Drubbing
Fyfe and Johnson were not fit. Sandilands going out as well just iced the season.

You need one standout player as a minimum in the back, forward and middle. Preferably 2 in the middle, and a solid ruck IMo. These are the ones that the journeymen work off. We have too many journeymen and youngsters at present, so the mix is unbalanced.

Put those fit 3 KPPs - arguably the best players in their position of their era, and you fix a lot of the issues. Add Bennell and possibly some other names, rotate the promising youngsters through, and I think it's possible we'll be more consistent next year.

I was buoyed by the 3 in a row, only becasue the Port seemed to suggest signs were good, but the hole they've dropped back into shows the youngsters can't fill the gaps.
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DockerKnockers The 2017 Bounce Back Myth? 7 years 9 months ago #10

DockerKnockers
I don't blame just injuries for Freo's 2016 demise. A tough early draw and coaching changes to the game plan has also contributed. But putting all the blame on just coaching and being dismissive of all other reasonable explanations lacks logic. In 2015, Lyon coached a fit Freo to minor premiers, only to be knocked out by the eventual premiers (where once again fitness and injuries had an effect on that Preliminary Final's result, eg. Fyfe broken leg).

To recap 2016;
R1. WB vs FR @Docklands. Expected Loss. No Sandilands or Johnno (and Fyfe < 100%). Freo got belted.
R2. FR vs GC @Subi. Expected Win. Freo's defensive midfield structures failed badly, especially in the 2nd qtr where the game was lost. Lyon identified this and accepted that NEW coaches and game plan was likely responsible.
R3. WC vs FR @Subi. Expected Loss. Freo were competitive until Sandi was injured.
R4. NM vs FR @Docklands. Expected Loss. No Sandilands. Freo competitive.
R5. FR vs CA @Subi. Expected Win. No Sandilands. Fyfe breaks his leg and plays less than a half of football. Johnson injures knee. Freo competitive. Lose by 4points.

At this point, Freo were 0-5. Sandilands, Fyfe, Johnno are ruled out for most (or all) of the remaining season. It became obvious to most, with these injuries, Freo would struggle to make the finals. Freo begin to play more youth.

By the end of Round 8, Freo are 0-8. 6 of those 8 losses were against top 8 teams and 5 of those were away games. Freo's comprehensive losses were against WB, HA & AD, all away games against top4 teams.

R9. FR vs RI @Subi. Freo are missing Sandilands, Fyfe, Johnno, Hill, Barlow.

So, while I believe it is fair to be critical of coaching (particularly at the start of 2016), it is unfair to dismiss injuries and Freo's early draw.

By rights, Freo's early draw should be better in 2017. Hopefully their injuries will be less and the coached game plan will be clearer. That is why I believe they will make the finals in 2017.
Gone to bigfooty where there's fewer Docker Haters.
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Jebediah55, Macca4, expat said You Beaut

purplepower The 2017 Bounce Back Myth? 7 years 9 months ago #11

purplepower
As there will be an extensive player overview....for obvious poor performance,I'm just expecting the same treatment for the manegment but for some reason this won't happen...
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RideoftheVagaries The 2017 Bounce Back Myth? 7 years 9 months ago #12

RideoftheVagaries
Really Agarn? I though exceed’s post was one of the more silly and reactionary posts I’ve seen on here. I mean slating players who are barely fledgling and suggesting they be sent back to Peel long-term in a development year? That’s pretty dunderheaded footy thinking.

As for the reason things are as they are, there’s a few I reckon. The injuries are part of the reason we’ve not been able to recover, but polly’s kind of right in one sense, that early on the gameplan came unstuck. But as I’ve posted before, it’s more to do with the difficulty they’ve had in transitioning, rather than anything evident in the plan they’re trying to implement. They’ve been caught in a lot of uncertainty with their decision making out on the field and it has resulted buying some central acreage in turnover city. When they did get some space to implement it, they slaughtered both the Bombres and Brisvegas in a way only few others have. I also think the new interpretations and rule changes added more uncertainty early on to compound this as well. But hopefully they can use this as a dress rehearsal for 2017, and have it locked and loaded for the massive injection of talent that hopefully will be primed for a big year.
;p
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Macca4, DockerKnockers, somethingstupid said You Beaut

purplepower The 2017 Bounce Back Myth? 7 years 9 months ago #13

purplepower
U haven't said much
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Corporal Agarn The 2017 Bounce Back Myth? 7 years 9 months ago #14

Corporal Agarn
I didn't slate any players, just somewhat agreed with Exceeds opinions about our capabilities and chances next year ROTV.

Also hadn't taken into account the easy draw we should get next year which will be very handy.

Hypen, I find myself often agreeing with what you post but some of the player changes for next year stump me a bit.

McCarthy isn't a certainty and has spent a year out of football. Big step up from being surrounded by other key forwards as he was at GWS.
I would be completely surprised if Johnson can play out a full season particularly as it hasn't happened for about the last three.
Morabito? Come on. As much as I would love it to happen, even Roly has said time is running out for him.
Balic has already had two operations for the same injury, there are fears he may not recover and he hasn't even played an AFL game and you expect him to take us forward. Tucker has had more exposure and is struggling.
Bennell also has huge injury concerns and has missed a year of footy.
Yarran has barely played all season and is also expected to take us forward in leaps and bounds despite not having played AFL before.
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