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Liam Bartlett's Ramble

TOPIC: Liam Bartlett's Ramble

blockerhall Liam Bartlett's Ramble 7 years 11 months ago #155

blockerhall
In reality, irrespective of whether we are 0-8 or 3-5, the problem I have is that I believe the rate of improvement we have available will be below over half the lists in the AFL, so it doesn't look pretty from where I sit. And we just signed the head coach to 5 more years. I think I have a right to question why we did that, and to ask at what point can we consider that a bad, and perhaps very expensive, mistake?

And DockerKnockers, seriously, if you reckon Biz and I are fairweathered you have little credibility.
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The_Yeti, goodie, hypen, Bizkit, DazzElle, freofan61, Derby12 said You Beaut

DockerKnockers Liam Bartlett's Ramble 7 years 11 months ago #156

DockerKnockers
But again Bizkit you are dismissing the facts.
Freo are not losing comprehensively, so often to average sides. I’ll say it again, 6 of their 8 losses have been against top8 teams and 5 of those away from home. They are above average sides with a home ground advantage. The other two losses against average (or below average sides) were not comprehensive.

"We lose Sandi and have Griff come in who had people asking if we need Sandi any more a couple of years ago when replacing him."
Wow, what chance do I have when I read a comment like that.
If you cannot see just how significant 211 is for Freo, then I suggest your understanding of Freo’s recent game history is very poor. Freo’s Hit Outs For and Against so far in 2016 (with 211 mostly missing) is 317 to 330 (Clearances 283 to 288). In 2015 it was 1405 to 719 (Clearances 1007 to 819).
Much of Freo's game plan in recent years has been modelled around 211. Freo would look for stoppages knowing they had the advantage in that area.

Hawks have been the best side in the competition. They have had great maturity and depth in their player list, more than the rest of the competition for several years now. Just because Hawthorn can survive without Roughead and Hodge has no correlation to the impact to Freo when missing 211, Fyfe and others.
If you want to make the claim that Freo don’t have depth and this is a weakness, then yes, most here would agree with that, but that is not so easily fixed. If it was, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
Gone to bigfooty where there's fewer Docker Haters.
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Macca4, OK chief said You Beaut

Flag_2005 Liam Bartlett's Ramble 7 years 11 months ago #157

Flag_2005
We lost to Carlton by a kick. Without reviewing the entire tape of the game I can recall a goal coming from a free kick given away by Ballantyne off the ball in the first quarter to get a winless Carlton team rolling; a goal to Thomas (from memory) from a set shot which actually bounced on the goal line but we had nobody standing on the goal line; Taberner trying to mark a ball that was just about to cross the goal line for a goal with the end result being a dropped mark and a point.

The Carlton game was in the 'one of those games' category of which there seem to be one or two every year (ie. Richmond at home last year).
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DockerKnockers Liam Bartlett's Ramble 7 years 11 months ago #158

DockerKnockers
Anybody who wants to get all vocal and have a whinge when their team is 0-8, while not acknowledging the facts that the draw and injuries have played a significant role in those results is a fairweather supporter in my opinion. Ignoring the facts and details and just making unsubstantiated opinionated comments does nothing for my view of your credibility either.

Criticising Ross Lyon's 5 year extension on grounds that he is not a premiership coach is again a pretty poorly educated comment. Roly has got to 3 Grand Finals in 9 years of coaching. He missed a premiership by one point. Under Roly's coaching, Freo have not had players leave. Freo has been successful, more successful than 15 of the 17 other clubs. If not Roly, who do you suggest is a better alternative? John Worsfold maybe? He's a premiership coach.
Gone to bigfooty where there's fewer Docker Haters.
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Macca4, OK chief said You Beaut

blockerhall Liam Bartlett's Ramble 7 years 11 months ago #159

blockerhall
.
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bpurple Liam Bartlett's Ramble 7 years 11 months ago #160

bpurple
Was there someone a few posts ago who along with a few other coaches on a winning streak said Rocket Eade had mastered the "new" style of game that is all the rage. The only thing rocket has mastered is moving deckchairs in a more competent fashion on the deck of a ship headed for not just an iceberg but one of the polar caps.
Go back and watch North Melbourne games from the Carey era, and marvel at how similar the run and gun game plan of now is to that teams style. Its just slingshot footy and it is every bit as taxing as the flood, which is why with the list they had and the dominance they had in that time they only managed two GF wins. When Carlton picked up Pagan he tried the same thing there, didn't have the personnel so failed, does that make him a bad coach? He did win two GF's after all.
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Bizkit Liam Bartlett's Ramble 7 years 11 months ago #161

Bizkit
I'm not ignoring any facts, I'm weighing them differently to you apparently. I don't know how the GC loss wasn't comprehensive when they were cruising the entire game.

I wasn't comparing Sandi and Griff by belittling Sandi, I've always rated him incredibly highly and as far and away the best ruckman in the comp. I was talking up Griff as the best back up ruckman in the competition and how good our depth is. We have so many blokes in their mid 20's in the WAFL able to step up and instantly impact the team like a Griff which diminished the impact of losing a player (as those sides who are perennially amongst the top 4 tend to). Losing those players shouldn't hurt us as much as other lesser sides who aren't the reigning minor premiers. I would also definitely consider Hodge (the quarterback who sets up all of Hawthorns play as well as their leader) and Roughead (the number 1 KPF and goalkicker) equal to Fyfe and Sandi's importance to us.

As for RL I haven't called for his head or sacking, he's locked in now so he has to improve and actually show he knows how to develop a team. I pray and hope that includes some attractive footy but I very much doubt it based on everything we know. Unfortunately I also don't think he is any good at developing a side either but he'll get a few years now to prove everyone wrong (which was a mistake by the admin who I do think should go).
Nathan: When did you get balls?
Simon: I've always had balls you've just never seen them.
Nathan: That's the gayest thing I've ever heard.
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DockerKnockers Liam Bartlett's Ramble 7 years 11 months ago #162

DockerKnockers
Bizkit, you do ignore, or at least dismiss the facts I so often present.

The stats provided show why 211 is so important to Freo’s success.They leave no doubt about the differences between 211 and Griffin. Responding with “… like a Griff which diminished the impact of losing a player…”, is either ignorant or dismissive of that data showing just how important 211 is and the massive gap in the stats for his and Griff’s games.

Freo have not been losing so often to average sides so comprehensively. Again, 6 of the 8 teams have been top 8 sides. Focussing on one game against Gold Coast is again ignorant or dismissive of the data presented. In that Round 2 Gold Coast game, Freo lost by 26 points, had considerably more Hit Outs, Clearances, Contested Possessions, & inside 50s than Gold Coast. In my opinion, the game was lost due to Freo’s new game plans resulting in poor defensive midfield work. Again, this allowed Gold Coast to score 6 goals from less centre clearances than Freo. Freo scored 2 goals from Centre Clearances. There is your (26 point) difference in that one problem area. An issue that Roly recognised and has most likely now fixed.
Gone to bigfooty where there's fewer Docker Haters.
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rogerrocks, Macca4, OK chief said You Beaut

shane Liam Bartlett's Ramble 7 years 11 months ago #163

shane
If we were any good, only 3 of those teams would be in the 8. They're living the high life on our points and percentage. Bastards.
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DockerKnockers Liam Bartlett's Ramble 7 years 11 months ago #164

DockerKnockers
If Freo were 8-0, 5 of those 6 teams would still be in the top8.
Freo would be top and Adelaide would drop out.
Gone to bigfooty where there's fewer Docker Haters.
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hypen Liam Bartlett's Ramble 7 years 11 months ago #165

hypen
Putting Sandilands' absence forward as a reason for poor performance is getting perilously close to using Pavlich's absence as a reason.

We are going to have to get used to it real quick.
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shane Liam Bartlett's Ramble 7 years 11 months ago #166

shane
I'd suggest that there had been a lot of failed planning put into a long term succession plan for Sandilands and it was another example of the lack of talent Chris Bond has for his job but then I'd have to produce a detailed analysis of draft picks for the past decade and provide resumes for several candidates who could do the job better, including the terms of a contract of employment which I think they would agree to within, a specific period of notice to allow for a smooth transition.

So I won't suggest that.
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blockerhall, The_Yeti, Bizkit, OK chief, freofan61, KingKepler, Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

ChewyBoot Liam Bartlett's Ramble 7 years 11 months ago #167

ChewyBoot
Its easier to lay blame without the detail -

As Liam says, purple diehards know, Freo gave up its No.2 draft pick to Richmond in exchange for Bond in 1997. The Tigers got Brad Ottens and Bond was later sacked as Docker’s captain.*

( I don't know that therefore I mustn't be a purple diehard - but I vaguely remember there were more colours than purple back in 1997)

I'd be worried if I thought the same way as Liam, but for anyone who thinks they've been rubbed up the right way, I'm guessing what seems like vindication, might be just be resourced from a weeks reading of what the "critics claim" on Dockerland - including the Leicester City reference which is way too coincidental for me. I'm assuming there was less crap in the online version than in the print version of Liam's article, but I don't need to find out if I'm right about that.

By reduction I've narrowed this thread down to three options:
i)The list is bad, Bond and/or Lloyd have let us down - Its not the coaches fault.
ii) The list is good, the coach let us down.
iii) The list is bad and the coach is bad.

*Jeff White traded by Fremantle to Melbourne for Pick 2 and Pick 18 (Daniel Hargraves). Pick 2 (Brad Ottens) ontraded by Fremantle to Richmond for Chris Bond and Pick 21 (Clem Michael).
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Bizkit Liam Bartlett's Ramble 7 years 11 months ago #168

Bizkit
This is gonna go no where again because you're going to site a bunch of irrelevant stats you believe conclusively proves your point but are barely related. I address the relevant issues and you'll come back with more stats that don't really mean much.

I'll repeat myself so you can put your irrelevant stats away, I'm not arguing Sandi isn't incredibly important. He is. Griff is a good ruckman too and does plenty for us being infinitely better than any other clubs back up ruckman. Sandi is one player though and the bloke replacing him should be able to do an adequate enough job that it doesn't transform us into a rabble that loses to Carlton.

GC were 5 goals up at half time and never looked challenged, it was a comprehensive loss to an average side at home. The only other game in the average opponent category was Carlton who we lost to at home as well. These are the relevant games to my comment and losing either is way below acceptable regardless of any of your other excuses. We were humiliated in both.

When you take into account the beltings received against most other opponents this season it is dim viewing
Nathan: When did you get balls?
Simon: I've always had balls you've just never seen them.
Nathan: That's the gayest thing I've ever heard.
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