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TOPIC: Ross Lyon not even trying to catch up

Drubbing Ross Lyon not even trying to catch up 8 years 4 weeks ago #43

Drubbing
Did I say ALL games? You picked 3 games where it wasn't the case. I don't know why you put Sydney in there, as that is good example of what i'm talking about. R9 was typical of grinding out wins that had few redeeming qualities for spectators. Teams needs to be able to do that. That is essentially the only way we do win.

You think they're not going to run out of legs, skill and wins this year? Think about losing MJ or 211 for a stretch of games, and watch us leak goals like a sieve like we did against the dogs.

I hated Rolyball in the first season and warmed to it when the players were able to throttle the opposition and control a game through sheer unrelenting pressure. The 2013 Prelim being a classic example. I warmed to it more when he let the game open up last year. But he clearly has no confidence in the team he has, to consistently win that way. So he's reverting to his default. Now they are struggling with that too.

This will be our worst season under Lyon IMO, all the signs are there.
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Raglan Matt Ross Lyon not even trying to catch up 8 years 4 weeks ago #44

Raglan Matt
I don't think the "long road trip" is such a big factor at this stage of the season, and for teams who only do it a couple of times a year. So the Suns run and stun tactics are not so remarkable. What is remarkable is as Roly said is that we could not stifle the centre clearances of the Suns in that second quarter, and were unable to contain Martin.

Lynch could be expected to score 3 or 4 goals given reasonable opportunity but Martin should never have been given the chance to kick 5, and his conversion of his chances was a big factor in the Suns win. It is the second week in a row that an opposition 2nd string forward has punished us, and it is the second week in a row that we have squandered enough forward entries to have kicked a winning score.
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rogerrocks said You Beaut

ChewyBoot Ross Lyon not even trying to catch up 8 years 4 weeks ago #45

ChewyBoot
Drubbing, I've predicted a similar outcome to you in terms of where we'll be placed on the home and away ladder at the end of this season, based on the fact we've been unlucky with injuries in the past, and we're likely to continue to be with those key aging players (Johnson/Sandilands), but also that we have been scored against easily on the turnover rebound, and that McPharlin played in 15 of our 17 home and away wins last season - so I expect that it will harder for us to keep teams to a low score.

Throughout your posts in this thread, the time frame is hard to pin down, so its hard to define if you were saying we did changed for some temporary success which has now become outdated, or we changed and lost faith and reverted back to 2012 style, or that we've really never changed at all since 2012. (Maybe you could be a bit more clearer on that.) The reason why I posted those games from early last year was not to say those wins were attractive to watch but to counter your claim that our players have run out of steam in the last quarter. I included the Round 4 Sydney game because the opposition were within 3 points with 15 minutes to play. You'd expect with the nothing left in the tank theory against a Top 4 team, that we would have lost with the time remaining, but we kicked the last two goals of the game and won. But that's all in the past.

If the default which you call Rolyball is grinding unrelenting pressure I haven't see much of that default. In the two games so far, there's been little of that scrum style play with a crowd of players around the ball. Players aren't contesting 5 or 6 times in a row because the contests are more 2 players on 2 - 3 players on 3 maximum (including at centre bounces) and there's a lot of space after players are getting beaten. That's the one difference I've seen, and lack of the usual organization around the contests, and with the lower numbers it looks like its made our players cough up the ball a bit more when the onus is on them to make a disposal over distance rather than flip it around with a series of handballs. It does look like lack of skill at the moment, or it might just be the transition of learning how to use the ball a different way. I don't know if its a symptom of this lack of sureness but it seems like we've had a high number of smothered possessions against us when we've had control of the ball.

Players like Barlow, Sutlciffe, C Pearce look slow, and I suppose they are comparatively slow with the elite speedsters, but you look slow when you haven't got the ball. Mundy and Neale looked slow too, caught in turnover transition not being able to cover defensively with their opponents ahead of them, but you're not going to drop or lose confidence in those two players - even though, they're probably no faster than Barlow, Sutcliffe and C.Pearce. Its more about getting the ball and retaining possession. I think that was the point Ross was making about us not being quick enough when the game opened up and the other team had possession.

With regards to rule changes, so far this season there's been a drop in boundary throw-ins by about 16% and in ball ups around the ground by about 20%- which obviously means less stoppages, and a bit less contested possession. ( These are early stats. Cameron Ling was quoting these stats on 3aw via Champion Data prior to the Sunday games stats being included). When you're getting goals scored against you straight out of the middle, the lack of the familiar Fremantle style pressure around the ball at contests wouldn't have much to do with reduced interchange numbers. Maybe there's been less ball ups, and more free kicks being paid around the contest, but Sandilands hit outs were still high. Eade said last night that he reckoned the interchange reduction numbers won't start to kick in till about Round 8 or 9 when there's a cumulative load on players having to run more. If he's right, that would mean a drop in skills across the board from all teams.

I'm still seeing that grinding style at stoppages in other winning teams though - like Hawthorn today against West Coast, and in the bits I saw of Sydney last week against Collingwood. Good teams use that method to win games. Our plan is supposed to be that we're looking to keep what's got us to a preliminary final and tweek it to give us a little more attacking Hawthorn style flair.

I'm aware there's a good chance we could be 0W-4L in a couple of weeks time but optimistically, I think we're in transition - giving up one part of our game to learn another.
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Morgan, rogerrocks, Raglan Matt, DockerKnockers, somethingstupid said You Beaut

hypen Ross Lyon not even trying to catch up 8 years 4 weeks ago #46

hypen
And this where I am struggling to understand the change we have made. With the rotations being capped you can't sustain that god awful structure that sees Pavlich and all other fwds push up to the centre line and then run back towards goal. There is simply too much running involved without unlimited rotations. So we musnt do that anymore, I dont go to games these days but I get the impression we are not doing that.

What I dont understand is why the wings and half forwards are not pushing into the square at centre bounce downs, killing the space and letting the big bodied skilled mids do their thing. We cant open it up at centre square bounce downs, we dont have the speed, but we have the grunt. We still should be boxing that part of the game up.

This needs to change, and if that did change against GC we would have won the game. Save that open structure for Harley, Mora and when we get Simpson back.

Does anyone know how Sth Fremantle are going?

I know its only rd 3 but I am calling it now - dynasty!
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Down on down said You Beaut

pollyanna Ross Lyon not even trying to catch up 8 years 4 weeks ago #47

pollyanna
Chewy: maybe 0/4 but no way, 0/5! We may be below Carlton on the ladder, but no one actually loses to them - do they? At home?

Yeah, that'll start a charge up the ladder - it starts at Subi with a rousing win over Carlton! Look out Gold Coast, here we come!
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rogerrocks Ross Lyon not even trying to catch up 8 years 4 weeks ago #48

rogerrocks
The Hawks (well a few of them) aren't particularly fast. They do move the ball fast, and they have the confidence to handball in circles until some space opens up. And yes, it sometimes stuffs up, even for them.

You need some speedy players, but I'd say that speedy, sure, ball handling, and really quick, good decision making are more important.
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purplepower Ross Lyon not even trying to catch up 8 years 4 weeks ago #49

purplepower
Tanking for another midfielder
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KingKepler Ross Lyon not even trying to catch up 8 years 4 weeks ago #50

KingKepler
Give some credit to the opposition we've played. The dogs and Suns are top quality this year. We simply got beaten by better teams on the day but will be better than them come finals.
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Raglan Matt said You Beaut

freozoid Ross Lyon not even trying to catch up 8 years 4 weeks ago #51

freozoid
"So therefore if you try and play like that and you can't kick and you can't retain it, well you need to be quick. And if you're not quick and you can't kick well, it puts you under pressure."

- roly

At least freo don't have necrotising fasciitis. Yet.

Carn freo!!!
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clinical Ross Lyon not even trying to catch up 8 years 4 weeks ago #52

clinical
Are people not watching the same games here? I like to be supportive but how some can be so optimistic is beyond me. I have never you beauted so many of Drubbings posts in all of history. Something is amiss at Freo right now. I saw some desperation and pressure in the 3rd quarter but that used to be our trademark for the whole game. $5.25 odds were too good to pass up which dulled the pain a little but really, if our players skills don't sharpen fast we will be starting a new rebuild.

I'm blaming Fyfe's man bun, there is no place for that at Freo, leave that to west coast or Carlton -go back to the shaggy look son.
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pollyanna, Down on down said You Beaut

RideoftheVagaries Ross Lyon not even trying to catch up 8 years 4 weeks ago #53

RideoftheVagaries
Pessimism’s only ever useful if it motivates you to act on something you can control and needs controlling.

Optimism is the best go to when you have virtually no control over something. Otherwise you’re only causing yourself unnecessary grief.
;p
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jezzaargh said You Beaut

shane Ross Lyon not even trying to catch up 8 years 4 weeks ago #54

shane
...and then you join the cheer squad and start wearing sequinned pants. Clap. Clap. Clap.
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RideoftheVagaries Ross Lyon not even trying to catch up 8 years 4 weeks ago #55

RideoftheVagaries
Ahhh sequinned pants, like you're carrying the disco with you wherever you go.
;p
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docked Ross Lyon not even trying to catch up 8 years 3 weeks ago #56

docked
Start wearing sequinned pants? Oh ...
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shane, ManInPurple said You Beaut