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TOPIC: Time to talk about the fist

Duges66 Time to talk about the fist 8 years 6 months ago #1

Duges66
Zac D - always been an admirer (hell I own his wear white on the night jumper from the 2013 Pt Adelaide home game) but with a view to what we need to do to take the next step can we go to the next level with a guy who although he gives his everything unfortunately that everything ain't much.

I understand it becomes more complicated with Luke finishing up.

But the fist not being a go to option means that load is shifted to others.
Defending fwds don't bother manning him up at kick ins instead preferring to position themselves where they can best impact the contest.

Umps don't like him (yeh yeh we don't like them either) so unsurprisingly they treat him harshly.
Career frees for / against is 69 / 170 as a defender that's quite a few shots on goal we cough up.

Anyways - interested to hear others opinions.
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Walter the baker, Rhufus said You Beaut

Duges66 Time to talk about the fist 8 years 6 months ago #2

Duges66
Just a few stats on Zac from finalsiren.com

Played his best footy numbers wise at St Kilda particularly 2009 where 13 of his 23 games produced game pts above 50
2009 - 53 pt ave / game
2010 - 43
2011 - 39

At Freo
2012 - 33 pts ave / game
2013 - 33
2014 - 36

Certainly the numbers don't suggest he is getting better, i.e. more confident to contribute with ball in hand.

His numbers are inflated when you look at the teams he has gotten his biggest numbers against.
Carlton & Melbourne 49 pts/ ave game
Bulldogs 47
Fremantle 46 (from his Hawks / Saints days - heavily inflated by his 75 pt game v Freo in 2006)
Gold Coast 45

His worst numbers come against
WCE - 28 pts ave/ game (this concerns me particularly)
Hawks - 31
North M - 32
Geelong - 32.5
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Rhufus said You Beaut

Sharksman Time to talk about the fist 8 years 6 months ago #3

Sharksman
Can any team have a tall defender who is a one trick pony? Doesn't trust himself to kick, not the greatest decision maker and likes to handball to team mates who are under more pressure than he is. Plus he needs to realise, no matter what he does with his hair, he will never match Fyfey.
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okeedokee said You Beaut

Bizkit Time to talk about the fist 8 years 6 months ago #4

Bizkit
I've made my thoughts on Dawson pretty clear over a long period of time. That is, while he can take a tall opponent and try and spoil them all day, the rest of his skills make him too much of a liability to compensate for. While he might save 1 goal by manning up the opposition ruckman better than another tall defender, he costs more in his lack of skills, awareness and decision making both in conceding goals to the opposition and stuffing up our goals when moving the footy forward.

This is for a lot of reasons I've outlined in the past and I think it showed for a large part of this season when he didn't play and we moved the ball fantastically out of defence (specifically Johnno but others contributed). We were able to get defenders loose quickly and move the ball with speed and precision after flooding the back half. Having Dawson down there puts a lot more pressure on other defenders to get moving because the opposition would love the footy in Dawson's hands on the rebound and are happy to ignore him. Dawson rarely bothers even making a dummy lead for fear someone might pass him the ball!

Just that point alone is more than enough for me to want someone else in the side in that position. We cover for not having the height down back well with large numbers so I don't believe it would hurt us at all unless there was a 1v1 but I'd still back a SCOS or even APearce to half just as many of those contests as Dawson. The likes of Spurr and Ibbo have no hesitation throwing their body at the contests and in the way of bigger players which is what makes our defence so strong and able to nullify a height advantage to the opposition.
Nathan: When did you get balls?
Simon: I've always had balls you've just never seen them.
Nathan: That's the gayest thing I've ever heard.
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Rhufus said You Beaut

Corporal Agarn Time to talk about the fist 8 years 6 months ago #5

Corporal Agarn
As I've mentioned before With Luke going we only have Johnno and Silvagni who never put a full season together due to injury, Dawson who is a liability nowadays, A Pearce just starting out and the untried Smith who has done very little at Peel. Plus Johnson and Dawson are over 30.
So yes, while we desperately need forwards, we are also in the same situation down back.
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darthmarto Time to talk about the fist 8 years 6 months ago #6

darthmarto
Bloke called Ibbotson goes alright down back.
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Raglan Matt said You Beaut

RideoftheVagaries Time to talk about the fist 8 years 6 months ago #7

RideoftheVagaries
Hooker is a free agent next year. Might be worth a shot if we've got any left.
;p
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hypen Time to talk about the fist 8 years 6 months ago #8

hypen
Dont ask questions of Dawson. Ask them of Lyon.
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ghq, purple kit, Morgan, DocDocker, Bizkit said You Beaut

Corporal Agarn Time to talk about the fist 8 years 6 months ago #9

Corporal Agarn
shar.es/17Egyl

Pretty fair summation and in line with what we're thinking down back and up forward.
Don't agree wit SCOS going though as we don't have much else there for for starters.
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Quasimodo Time to talk about the fist 8 years 6 months ago #10

Quasimodo
I have always felt our backline was better with him in it, until this season. His limitations seemed more exposed this season. His lack of decision making his reluctance to move the ball quickly his poor disposal. Other teams especially the good ones now exploit his weakneses. I share the view now that we can't cover his weakness any longer and need to look at a changed defensive structure.

I don't see Silvagno as the answer he is just Dawson with anger management issues the lack of poise and poor disposal is still a problem.

I think A Pearce and Johnson play the talls with ibbo 3rd up in the air using Spurr and Sutcliffe as the distributors if we get Bennell he might be able to add precision kicking off half back and speed up our ball movement, but his off field issues bother me and we don't have a good track record of turning blokes around, Walters excepted.
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Morgan Time to talk about the fist 8 years 6 months ago #11

Morgan
He's an interesting player in that most of his strengths and limitations are obvious. Previously I've thought that we were better with him, and I think he still has value as a horses-for-courses proposition when we play a team of giants - but there aren't many of those teams.

In his defence, few players come off such an interrupted start to the season and perform at their best. Also, our inability to move the ball from defence stems from the fact that of our entire defence, only Johnno is an above average kick or decision maker. When we lost Duff to age / slowness, it really exposed the other players - Dawson is the most obvious victim of that, but consider how rubbish AA Luke was with ball in hand this year. Ibbo, Sutcliffe and Spurr are all serviceable kicks at best, and poor at worst.

If we could somehow snag Bennell, I'd be tempted to give him a role across half-back, and maybe free Sutcliffe or Sheridan to the mindless running-up-and-down-the-ground stuff. I think it's a better way to get numbers in space, whilst leaving the creative stuff to someone who has it in them. In such a system, there could still be a place for Dawson in the right circumstances.
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DockerKnockers said You Beaut

markh295 Time to talk about the fist 8 years 6 months ago #12

markh295
I think Bennell would also give us the option to play Fyfe forward when needed and Hilly off the half back line
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Raglan Matt Time to talk about the fist 8 years 6 months ago #13

Raglan Matt
Every one talks about us needing more key forwards, and more key backs but it seems to me that we need a couple of Roger "The Genius" Haydens.
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rogerrocks, Rhufus said You Beaut

rocky333 Time to talk about the fist 8 years 6 months ago #14

rocky333
I was hoping dawson would retire,he does absolutely nothing most of the time
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