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TOPIC: Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne

Corporal Agarn Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 6 months ago #43

Corporal Agarn
Cheers Fre_Doh. Great to have you back!!! Hope your stats are all up to date.
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Mike said You Beaut

Docker by the Sea Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 6 months ago #44

Docker by the Sea
Always good to see posts by Fre-Doh
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Yardy said You Beaut

Duges66 Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 6 months ago #45

Duges66
Full context of the hit on Fyfe and the no 50m for Ballas
www.afl.com.au/video/smart-replay?round=...62&videoQuality=high
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Duges66 Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 6 months ago #46

Duges66
Also I note that there was no mention in the MRP statement along the lines of it was assessed with no action required which when you consider Mundy's bump / 50m's to North's he was hit with a fine.
www.afl.com.au/news/2015-08-24/mrp-full-statement-round-21

www.afl.com.au/video/smart-replay?round=...60&videoQuality=high
Hang in there the slo mo is after Browns goal.
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Duges66 Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 6 months ago #47

Duges66
www.afl.com.au/video/smart-replay?round=...08&videoQuality=high

No free to Walters (both Stevic & Rosebury could have adjudicated) but chose not to, why - certain Freo goal, that's why.
50/50 goes to Hale could have gone to Sandi for Hale holding i.e. he didn't bother to raise an arm to contest the ruck just did as most rucks do i.e. infringe/hold Sandi to limit his advantage.
Tell me what Sandi did doesn't happen at just about every throw up, i.e. rucks 1 mtr apart ball goes up both come together to contest the ball, whats different in this instance? Hawks needed assistance to relieve the pressure we were bringing oh that & the likely hood of a Freo goal given where the throw up was.
No free to Fyfe against Rioli - perhaps a play on but demonstrates a 50/50 with nothin' for us.
Then another soft one goes to Hale against Dawson for a push, a soft one in the context of the game being on a knifes edge still it's a 50/50 in that if it wasn't paid would anyone commentators included even mention it the next day?
But this one they can't get the whistle in the mouth quick enough given it was in favour of the Hawks.

I reckon that couple of minutes sums it up for me - one way umpiring we didn't stand a chance.
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careyg, DazzElle, slammen, Jim153 said You Beaut

Raglan Matt Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 6 months ago #48

Raglan Matt
Duges that replay of Pyke on Fyfe shows that umpire Findlay's vision was unimpeded, and he looked at the incident just as Pyke hit Fyfe.
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Duges66 said You Beaut

Duges66 Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 6 months ago #49

Duges66
Another thing of interest re frees for Freo
Near half way thru the 2nd qtr its 8-2 hawks way.
With the Hawks effectively 4 goals up it's now time to start paying some for Freo to balance the ledger.
During the next 12 min's or so we get 5 frees to 0 - Hill kicks a goal - Freo 3 goals down so still ok to pay frees to Freo. Ledger gets to 8-7 still Hawks way but looks ok from a balanced umpiring POV based on numbers alone.
Pav kicks a goal to bring it to 2 goals down. What do you reckon then happens?
Yep the frees for us dry up. We don't receive another free kick in the next 20 min's of football. It's not till the Hawks have re established a 4 goal lead that we again are allowed to receive a few frees in a cluster of 6 to ensure the free kick count appears balanced.
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Dockerplus said You Beaut

rogerrocks Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 6 months ago #50

rogerrocks
I thought that Fyfe definitely should have got an in-the-back free against Rioli. Ask yourself if it was on of their stars, and one of our small forwards, what would the result have been?
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PommieFarmer Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 6 months ago #51

PommieFarmer
Do we think the Club goes into as much analysis as Dockerlanders?

Surley there is enough information to launch a case behind closed doors. It must be time for the AFL to be continually challanged and held to account everytime we get shafted.

At least it lets them know we're onto them and were not going to take it anymore?

2016 a line in the sand has to be drawn.
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werdnarewop said You Beaut

Dockerplus Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 6 months ago #52

Dockerplus
Good point PF.
The Awfl need to know if they're going to be onto the " Ballantyne stuff" we are onto them with their "umpire stuff".
C'mon Freo start with the audio of the hawks game.
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Morgan Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 6 months ago #53

Morgan
Given the discrepancy in the free kick counts over the last few years, it would be remiss of the club not to have investigated the issue. As previously discussed, there are two obvious explanations for why the free kick counts are skewed:
i. We actually give away more free kicks, or put ourselves in a position where we receive fewer free kicks; or
ii. The umps are getting it consistently wrong in Freo games for some reason.

If it is the former, it is something at least one of the 87 assistant coaches should be looking at. Are we tackling correctly? Are our defenders holding too much? Do we get caught holding the ball more than other teams? Do we block off the ball more than other teams? Should we be diving more? That sort of thing.

If it is the umpires, how do we address it? Are certain umpires a problem? Do the umpires have a bias against certain players or Freo generally? Is there benefit in getting the umpires down to training as some other clubs do? That sort of thing.

People seem to assume that because the CEO / President / Coach aren’t publicly having a crack at the umpires /getting Supreme Court injunctions they aren’t doing enough to protect Freo’s interests. Well, it’s possible that’s the case, but in my view it is unlikely. Because, to my mind, when you are saying the clubs isn’t doing enough, here’s a rough list of implicit assumptions that are being made:

i. That we have not investigated the issue: To me this seems unlikely, given how much money is spent on footy departments chasing 1% advantages, and the propensity of umpiring to affect the game.

ii. That it is even possible to somehow demonstrate systematic bias: This seems to me to be incredibly difficult given that 10 people might see one decision 3 different ways. You simply can’t remove the subjectivity element to even decide whether so many free kicks (or unpaid kicks) are correct.

iii. That any investigation undertaken by Freo would actually uncover verifiable systematic bias: As discussed, it’s possible that some of the discrepancy could be explained by other causes (eg, we actually give away more).

iv. That time / resources being put into this would create a better outcome for the footy club that those time and resources being spent elsewhere (ie, would you want to spend $100,000 on investigating umpire bias, or on another scout?)

v. That although there is a system in place whereby clubs can liaise with the umpiring department – which for the most part this happens privately – no positive results have or will come from this, or that they have been explored fully.

vi. That there is some benefit that would come from publicly complaining. I’m not convinced about this. No club has ever come out and alleged systematic umpiring bias against their clubs, yet we are not the only club that gets seemingly imbalanced free kick numbers (Sydney springs to mind). Why is that? I’m not sure complaining would help.

vii. That there is no detriment to complaining: Roly keeps banging on about being a ‘no-excuses’ footy club. Does giving our players excuses for the failure of our club help or hurt us in the long-run? Are the AFL vindictive enough to actually make life harder for Freo? If the issue is that there aren’t enough good umpires, does it really help for clubs to be coming out bagging them?

There are probably more assumptions, and maybe some above can be dismissed. I’m not an expert. But actually going public with allegations of systematic bias would be huge step, and you’d want to satisfy yourself that it was worth it.

In any event, if you want to bag the club, I reckon you are saying, in part, that you know the answers to the above more than people whose livelihood depends on winning games of football. It’s entirely possible, but in my view – as Roly would say – less likely than more likely.
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Raglan Matt Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 6 months ago #54

Raglan Matt
RR the triple M audio grab answered that question for you.
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Duges66 Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 6 months ago #55

Duges66
RM where is this - triple M audio grab you refer to? Would like a listen.
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Raglan Matt Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 6 months ago #56

Raglan Matt
Duges here it is
www.dockerland.com/index.php?option=com_...tstart=42&Itemid=251

Post 49, no video, just an audio feed
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Duges66 said You Beaut