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TOPIC: Sumich

Drubbing Sumich 8 years 6 months ago #15

Drubbing
Sumich has applied for almost every vacant head coach job there is. He spent years at WC under worsfold as player and Ass coach. And he was never even in the race for that job when worsfold left.

Nuff said.

We took him because we have a history of hiring also rans and cast offs that were already underperforming in their current role.
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Jebediah55 Sumich 8 years 6 months ago #16

Jebediah55
I heard this morning a raft of assistants are leaving, including Stone ( back the rugby), kirk (to sydney i think), Lloyd to one of the melbourne clubs, didnt hear clearly the others, but to me the cleanout is appropriate, and to get McCarthy, Bennell and maybe jetta is the aim with some new infusion of assistants.
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hypen Sumich 8 years 6 months ago #17

hypen
So basically its the fault of the assistant coaches?
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Noddy Sumich 8 years 6 months ago #18

Noddy
Really disappointed in people bagging Sumich for blokes not kicking straight..........that's ludicrous. Our fwd line lacks three quality players.
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OL55, Flag_2005 said You Beaut

ChilliEater Sumich 8 years 6 months ago #19

ChilliEater
Isn't Stone the stoppage coach? Aren't we the best stoppage team in the country? Interesting call if true.
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rogerrocks Sumich 8 years 6 months ago #20

rogerrocks
Goats everywhere.
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Sharksman Sumich 8 years 6 months ago #21

Sharksman
It's Jason Weber that's going back to rugby.
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Bizkit Sumich 8 years 6 months ago #22

Bizkit
The forward coach implements the head coach's strategy, he isn't the one deciding to push all our forwards up the ground and face 2v1's constantly on the rebound. In saying that i don't rate Sumich at all.
Nathan: When did you get balls?
Simon: I've always had balls you've just never seen them.
Nathan: That's the gayest thing I've ever heard.
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shane, Burton said You Beaut

Corporal Agarn Sumich 8 years 6 months ago #23

Corporal Agarn
In tonights game there hasn't been one occasion that the slime have gone into attack and their forward line has been completely vacant.
Probably a good reason why Kennedy was the Coleman medallist.
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Burton said You Beaut

ChewyBoot Sumich 8 years 6 months ago #24

ChewyBoot
How should we have set up our forward line with Griffin Pavlich Taberner and Mayne Walters and Ballantyne?

(Rhetorical answer) You want the talls to bring the smalls into the game. Taberner is not a contested mark, so his best role would be to try and run his opponent around and come up through the middle winning uncontested possession and then be a conduit for bringing the ball into Pavlich and Griffin, who would you hope have separation from each other, with the smalls quick and instictive enough to be gathering at their feet.

Against Hawthorn, one of the best defensive teams - good luck with that.

Selecting three slowish tall forwards together was always going to be sludge with defensive pressure, and Hawthorn had a lot of control of play where they maintained their 3-4 goal lead just by criss-cross keepings off uncontested possession that didn't make much inroad into our forward 50. The overall forward 50 entries at the end of the game were 42/41 Hawthorns way.

The only other times we have played that combination of Taberner, Pavlich and Griffin was in Rounds 15 and 16 - against Carlton and Richmond.

The first of those games against Carlton, Griffin spent more time on the ground than Sandilands, and Sandilands had some lengthier than usual time up forward. The other game against a decent defensive side in Richmond, Taberner was subbed early in the 2nd half (52% game time) - so that didn't work.

Hardly a blueprint for what was going to work in finals.

Griffin is a goer, but as a forward, the best he can do is stand under a ball and try and compete and occassionally take a grab. He doesn't have a bag of forward tricks, he's there because its folly to play only one ruckman in a final and have Sandilands go down - which has happened before.

I thought Walters was really the only dangerous effective forward last night. Griffin was only average. Ballas, Pav, Mayne well below their best. Taberner was a superfluous pick.

Last night we didn't have enough players to maintain possession when we got hold of the ball to send it forward to maintain clean possession all the way to a scoring position.

I'm not sure if we played it too safe with disposal when we had possession under coaching instructions not to turn over, or out of fear, or whether we're limited because we rely too much on getting the ball into those handful of players who can create.

Mundy had more handballs than kicks (10,17), same with Fyfe (7,17) Neale (7,15 - BTW 17 of those 22 possessions in the 1st half) Barlow (7,10). Hill who you want to kick the ball (12, 7 but disposal efficiency 58%). Pearce (16, 5 but 57% efficiency).

Disposal inside 50: DeBoer 5, Taberner 3, Fyfe 3, Pavlich 3, Griffin 3, Ballantyne 3, Hill 3, D Pearce 3
Goal assists: Sandilands 2, Taberner 1, Mayne 1, Ballantyne 1, Suban 1, Pavlich 1, Ibbotson 1

You can talk about not playing a forward structure, but its not evident when the play sets up at centre bounces. Sometimes it could be the opposite that occurs. A lot of teams drop spares back against Fremantle. Sydney dropped one back at the beginning of the last quarter in the qualifying final. That can be a way of attacking from defence too. Listening to a pre-game audio podcast from 3aw, one of the thoughts of the coach when interviewed about beating Hawthorn was to plan to stop Hawthorns tactic of using their spare defensive numbers to run the ball out (mostly Birchall).

Contrary to Agarns assertion above, unless I was receiving a rare hacked transmission from Channel 7 where players jumpers were tampered with, I saw a shot from behind the goals in the first half of tonights premil where the ball was just forward of centre favouring North Melbourne at a boundary throw in, and the deepest Eagles forwards sat alongside their opponents outside the 50m arc, on the edge of the centre 50m square. I reckon that would be standard for a lot of teams when the ball is in dispute. I think most teams tactically bring their forwards up outside 50 and try to get goals on turnover running back inside 50 to catch the defenders out. I guess its also to match defenders pressing up their territory advantage.

Hawthorn scored more goals from opposition errors than we did.

But this is about Suma, right?
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Flag_2005, OK chief, Raglan Matt, thecheg, DockerKnockers said You Beaut

Corporal Agarn Sumich 8 years 6 months ago #25

Corporal Agarn
Chewy, what I was suggesting was that not the way they set up, but as far as I could see there wasn't a time when they went into attack that there were massive open spaces for their players to run back on. I'll admit to not watching much of the last quarter but I didn't see any of the long kick over the top with the hope that you would run back onto it quicker than your opponent because everyone had pressed up the ground.
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Flag_2005 Sumich 8 years 6 months ago #26

Flag_2005
The obsession with Ross playing the forwards too far up the ground is hogwash. Every team does it and it was often the case last night that West Coast won the ball in the back line and streamed forward as one with all of their players in the defensive half.

I'd venture that the forward who plays further forward than most is Hawkins and that worked well for the Cats didn't it?

We are so light on for marking forwards it's ridiculous. You do the best with what you've got.
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Raglan Matt said You Beaut

markh295 Sumich 8 years 6 months ago #27

markh295
Put pav as the new forward coach and move on Sumich he has had his chance and it's not working.
Do everything we can to get Harley Bennell first. This will let us move Fyfe to the forward line. Then if possible trade for cam McCarthy. If we have to get up our 1st and 2nd round pick for this year and next so be it. These 2 players are worth it. We have good young players waiting to come in.
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OL55, Ruchos said You Beaut

Bizkit Sumich 8 years 6 months ago #28

Bizkit
You make some good points Chewy but your application and reasoning isn't quite right.

Playing 3 tall forwards is a result of most of our kicks forward being to outnumbered contests where the ball is generally easily rebounded due to the extra opposition numbers. We need talls there to have a chance of bringing the ball to ground and holding play up so we can earn a stoppage and force the ball forward again.

We still only have 3/4 players forward of the play to compete for the ball so our forwards best hope is to hold the ball up and wait for more players to get forward (with the problem being the opposition gets even more numbers into their defense). The few times we got forward with any kind of fluency were on the back of a mark on the rebound and hard running by the likes of Ballas to get out the back and free someone up for an easy goal. It should not be our primary mode of scoring but somehow tends to be.

The Hawks are able to criss-cross the footy because we have thrown spare numbers back behind the play and are resultingly applying little to no pressure on the ball carriers chipping the footy around waiting for an option (which they will find eventually because the Hawks have pace and elite foot skills). It doesn't work in reverse when our foot skills in the back half are below par for the tactic (Dawson, Sutcliffe, Sheridan, Muz etc).

As for our midfielders high handball numbers, it's a result of not being able to throw the footy on the boot due to a lack of forward structure. Our best bet is to link and run the ball forward and it is when we look best. That tactic also becomes tougher in finals (most do) in high pressure situations where the Hawks are hunting our ball carriers.

It's pretty tough for opposition sides to drop spares back against us too when we only have a few blokes ahead of the play. It's often 3v4/5 or more just because we don't have many players forward which is always gonna be difficult for us to score.
Nathan: When did you get balls?
Simon: I've always had balls you've just never seen them.
Nathan: That's the gayest thing I've ever heard.
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