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TOPIC: Why do Frees cost so much

darthmarto Why do Frees cost so much 8 years 7 months ago #57

darthmarto
Conspiracies require advanced planning, broad agreement & a degree of secrecy by all participants.

I can't remember a time the AFL ever displayed the above.

Except the time they made us play that final in Geelong.
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rogerrocks Why do Frees cost so much 8 years 7 months ago #58

rogerrocks
OK, I will agree that its not a conspiracy. The AFL, and the umpires, will have a tendency to follow the path of least resistance. This suggests that some teams make it more difficult for them when they are on the wrong end of the umpiring. It suggests that we don't.

So is there a way that the club can make it more painful for the AFL when we are the victims of dodgy umpiring? Clearly us booing the umps on game day doesn't work. Neither does Ross complaining to the media. Basically, until people go up to Mike Fitzpatrick at a cocktail party and tell him that the umpiring sucks, and what is he doing to fix it, nothing much will change. So how do we make the people at the top feel the pain of bad umpiring?
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somethingstupid Why do Frees cost so much 8 years 7 months ago #59

somethingstupid
Throw some cocktail parties and invite Mike Fitzpatrick?
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Drubbing Why do Frees cost so much 8 years 7 months ago #60

Drubbing
I remember Lyon saying last season or the season before, that they had a pretty hefty pile of stats they were going to put to the AFL and umpiring dept, and ask some questions.

I guess we've all had their answer by now. It doesn't have to be a conspiracy for you to get shafted. It's actually more effective if there isn't one. All you need is indifference and inaction.
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Raglan Matt said You Beaut

freo00 Why do Frees cost so much 8 years 7 months ago #61

freo00
It would be interesting to know if there is a trend as to the frees given in the forward 50m and the back 50m and who gets them to advantage or not ?

If it is possible to get that info would there be a trend as to when in a game they were given ?

Just a thought . If you thought about it ?
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Raglan Matt Why do Frees cost so much 8 years 7 months ago #62

Raglan Matt
The way the advantage rule is used concerning Freo is another anomaly in the stats.
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Placekick Why do Frees cost so much 8 years 7 months ago #63

Placekick
I think Fre-Doh provided info on this (of course) which showed that Freo got less frees inside 50, especially at critical periods of the match, and gave up more frees than other sides in the back half, again at critical periods. We tended to get more frees in the middle of the ground. It was compelling stuff, and reinforced the theory of bias, be it unconscious or otherwise.
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Docker by the Sea Why do Frees cost so much 8 years 7 months ago #64

Docker by the Sea
Those stats by Fre-doh were enlightening the best I have seen, I have no idea where he gets them from but great job. They were undeniable, and yet I still am left unable to explain the discrepancy.
Obviously the AFL is not part of a conspiracy as Morgan is at pains to point out. Yet I do not accept that our game style are that completely and utterly different to other teams that the stats can so consistently and comprehensively be skewed one way.
What the numbers that Fre-doh put up demonstrated was particularly relevant to this post as the raw numbers are not the only relevant numbers. Losing the raw numbers combined with field position and time awarded can carry a heavy cost.
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Morgan Why do Frees cost so much 8 years 7 months ago #65

Morgan
The free kick discrepancy is one free kick a half.

On an unrelated point, we have Zac Dawson on our team.
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pollyanna Why do Frees cost so much 8 years 7 months ago #66

pollyanna
What do you mean 'unrelated' - of course it's related.
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Docker by the Sea Why do Frees cost so much 8 years 7 months ago #67

Docker by the Sea
Unless of course your speaking about Richmond or West Coast in which case it is a little over 1 a qtr.
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rogerrocks Why do Frees cost so much 8 years 7 months ago #68

rogerrocks
The problem, Morgan, is that while it may average 1 free per quarter, we get some quarters where the free kick differential is nearly 10. As others point out, its where and when they happen that matters.
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Noddy said You Beaut

teasea Why do Frees cost so much 8 years 7 months ago #69

teasea
This week will be interesting - bloody Farmer AND Margetts!!!
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DockerKnockers Why do Frees cost so much 8 years 7 months ago #70

DockerKnockers
Farmer and Margetts haven't been that bad to Freo in the last couple of years.

Yes, where art thou Fre_Doh?

I have my own theories in regards to umpiring and I admit they aren't mainstream, so much of the data I present will be motivated by my own theories. So as Morgan (and others) rightly state, it isn't proof of anything. True. Free Kicks are affected by many factors. I am well aware of that. I would not just pluck stats and present them as being unusual if I had not spent so much time closely watching replays, zoomed and in slow motion in a better attempt to understanding some of the umpiring I find questionable. For example, Free Kicks of 8 to 1 in the first quarter to Hawthorn (2015 R15) may just be a random occurrence, even if not probable. But when you closely look at the replay of that quarter, it becomes much clearer that umpiring bias was present. Now is that bias caused by the fact the game was being played in Tasmania? If so, why is Tasmania a setting for greater umpiring bias than a Hawthorn home game at the MCG. My theories would suggest to me it is because the current AFL CEO has recently publicly admitted he sees Tasmania as one of their current marketing targets. Does that make my theory proven? Of course not, it is just my opinion. But what I am very confident in saying is, Free Kicks of 8 to 1 and what I can see on the replay can not reasonably be explained by just bad umpiring. You can each have your own theories, but to just dismiss the 8 to 1 free kicks is a little ignorant (in my opinion). Another would be Round 7 vs the Western Bulldogs when they had 14 Free Kicks in a row. That's not probable. So I watch the replay ... and again it appears there is more involved than just bad umpiring. With Freo 6-0 wins on top of the ladder, we get Fisher, Dalgleish and Stevic as our 3 field umpires ... the perfect storm. That's just two examples.

Anyway, what I'm trying to convey is, I do understand anybody who quickly dismisses my theories and labels them as conspiracy theories. Many people take comfort in that.
However, I do believe many of yesterday's conspiracy theories often become tomorrow's history lesson.
In any case, it does not necessarily mean the statistics I present should also be quickly dismissed.

Since Roly has been coaching Freo (2012 to now), we have had 7 Finals games. We have been on the wrong side of the free kick ledger 6 of those 7 games for a total of -38 (107 Frees For vs 145 Frees Against).
If I look at games played when Freo are in position 1 to 6 on the AFL Home & Away ladder, Freo have played 55 games and won the free kick count in only 15 of those (lost 36, even 4 times).
In contrast, when Freo have been positioned below, in 7 to 18th on the AFL H&A ladder, we have played 30 games and won the free kick count 21 times (lost 8, even once).
Gone to bigfooty where there's fewer Docker Haters.
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rogerrocks, Noddy, Raglan Matt, Duges66 said You Beaut