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TOPIC: Aaron Black

expat Re: Aaron Black 8 years 10 months ago #57

expat
Yes, but our 29 isn't a midget
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Raglan Matt Re: Aaron Black 8 years 10 months ago #58

Raglan Matt
Pick the best players you can get, short, tall, mids, waddle like a duck, and build your team and game style to suit. We did that with Modra, and Jeffrey, and we should continue to do it.
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DougGreen said You Beaut

DougGreen Re: Aaron Black 8 years 10 months ago #59

DougGreen
Clubs that think they can buy the best talent are called Carlton

We should keep an eye out for opportunities for good trades but never pay over the odds for any player. No single player is ever going to win us a flag and it seems is hard to attract the best to WA.

While we're waiting for the occasional trade to pop into view we should just draft the best available talent each year no matter what position and remember that while you need maybe 3 or 4 tall KPPs in the 22 the rest of the team are midfielders. You can never have too many midfielders
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Raglan Matt, DockerKnockers said You Beaut

Jezza Re: Aaron Black 8 years 10 months ago #60

Jezza
Spot on. Mids that are 192cm+ are gold. Anyone of Fyfe, Mundy and Barlow, can play KPP. That's where the game is headed. They're your prototype players. Bonus if you get a Hogan or Hawkins or Franklin type player but they don't fall off trees. I'm backing our recruiting team in, and since 2008, we've done alright.
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Raglan Matt, Down on down said You Beaut

391 Re: Aaron Black 8 years 10 months ago #61

391
Clubs that go after the right talent either via trade or draft are actually called Hawthorn and Sydney.

Hawks have awesome midfielders and lacked pace so they went and got Burgoyne, Isaac Smith, Brad Hill and Hartung. The last two draft camp beep test record holders in subsequent years. We all know about Lake and now Frawley is there too.

Sydney - is there a club better at it? Big fish came in via free agency, and Parker and Hannabry went late it draft. Their academy turns 'maybes' in to rolled gold.
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Bizkit Re: Aaron Black 8 years 10 months ago #62

Bizkit
Midfielders tend to be dime a dozen and taken anywhere in drafts, picking just randomly best available won't do it for you. You need an even squad of players in all positions, especially KPP talent. The OOFTITS were the last club to really get away with a premiership without quality KPP.
Nathan: When did you get balls?
Simon: I've always had balls you've just never seen them.
Nathan: That's the gayest thing I've ever heard.
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Drubbing Re: Aaron Black 8 years 10 months ago #63

Drubbing
Lake? He's the Ringo Starr of AFL footy.

Sydney? They are given a bigger pile of cash to spend. Despite the flags this has helped deliver, most Sydneysiders still prefer Origin.

Melbourne is the hub of football. Many players from that side of the country are going to prefer the best clubs over there, to the best here - they know how much hard work travel is.

GWS and GC also have added attraction of more cash to stay East, and travel burden is low.
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Raglan Matt said You Beaut

Fre_DOh Re: Aaron Black 8 years 10 months ago #64

Fre_DOh
Relying on drafting alone won’t get the job done. You must trade as well.

When a team is in rebuild mode, drafting should always be the priority. When a team is in premiership window mode, trading must be amped up.

Why? Opportunity and the lack thereof.

A rebuilding team has access to high draft picks over a number of years. A contending team doesn’t.

I’m of the opinion that you never trade a top 5 pick, ever. However, if your first pick is outside the top 10, you must be prepared to move it on if you can pick up an established player who fills a definite need whilst you are in premiership contention.

Sydney have had both the COLA and Academy benefits. They have used the system beautifully. We’re not in a position to use those benefits.

Hawthorn are a different kettle of fish and represent the model we should closely follow.
Hawthorn hasn't had a top 10 draft pick since 2006. Our last top 10 pick was Morabito in 2009.

Hawthorn have no difficulty trading away first round picks in order to fill specific needs which will help them win now. We are currently in that Hawthorn zone, our first round picks are not really high enough to get access to the top plums in each draft.

Is the best available player at #16 any better than the best available player at #21? Hawthorn say no. They'll happily slide down the selection order a few notches and use that leverage to trade in a player they believe they need now whilst not severely compromising their selection position.

In 2012 they traded away #21 and #43 for Lake and #27. In 2013 they traded away #18 and #19 and Savage for #24 and #59 and McEvoy. Last year they traded away #19 and #40 for O'Rourke and #43.

We are at a significant disadvantage to the Hawthorns of this world when it comes to attracting quality players.

Trading them in is extremely difficult. We must keep trying.

Does Aaron Black represent quality? At the moment probably not.

Black suffered a shoulder injury in rd 6 last year (v Freo. Remember the Johnson misconduct charge for bumping into Black as he was trying to leave the field?).

He went on to play every game for North last season, however, by season’s end he could barely raise his arm to shoulder height. He had shoulder surgery during the off season and has struggled to regain any form since then. He had a very good game at VFL level last week but spoiled things by kicking 2.5.

He should be back in the North senior team soon, Jarrad Waite has only kicked 0.4 in games v Freo, West Coast and Sydney in the past month.

Let Black return to senior footy on a regular basis, follow his progress and at season’s end make a call on whether he’s a possible trade target or not.
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hypen, Sox, Morgan, DocDocker, Bizkit, Dockerplus, ManInPurple, Corporal Agarn, Gerovich, Patient Docker said You Beaut

hypen Re: Aaron Black 8 years 10 months ago #65

hypen
That's a great read Freo Doh, just the thing I would like to add is you need to be proactive during trade week. I know Schwabb would run riot on trade day, but he didn't wait to see what was available, it's amazing what a club will be prepared to give up if you are transparent about what you will trade; you initially put up what you can offer and that is your starting point.

For us to trade a quality tall in Bond has to make something happen during trade week and he has to give up quality, I just don't see it happening.

I see ten years of Taberner.
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DockerKnockers Re: Aaron Black 8 years 10 months ago #66

DockerKnockers
Great post Fre_Doh about Black, but I would say we can still have a good team by just using the Drafts.

So far in 2015, we have used 27 players.
3 of those 27 players have come from Draft picks below 10 in the National Drafts.
3 of the 27 players have come from trades or Restricted Free Agent.
6 of those 27 players have come from Draft picks below 20 in the National Drafts.
21 have come from the Rookie, Pre-Season Drafts or National Drafts (picks 20 and above).

Freo are travelling well in 2015, because, I agree with Roly when he brings the attention back to the midfield.
You won't win premierships without a good midfield and without strong inside 50 numbers.
KPF's are not that important if you cannot get the ball down there.

Hawthorn, even in 2015 are still way ahead of the rest of us for Inside 50's For vs Against.
That is why Roly keeps reminding us that the Hawks are the ones to chase.

In any case, I don't think Black is that strong in the contested mark. I struggle to see him as a solution to any of our current (or short term future) inside 50 goal conversion efficiency issues.
Gone to bigfooty where there's fewer Docker Haters.
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Raglan Matt said You Beaut

hypen Re: Aaron Black 8 years 10 months ago #67

hypen
You still some quality talls and the cupboard except for Pearce will be empty in two years time.
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Bizkit said You Beaut

RideoftheVagaries Re: Aaron Black 8 years 10 months ago #68

RideoftheVagaries
Would be great to follow the Hawthorn model if we had the no.1 KPP's at other clubs banging on our door, but we aren't at the heart of Melbourne and aren't seen as a "dynasty team" like they are (not mentioning any intangibles like persuasive footy managers). As such, our lure attracts a shade less than blue ribbon, so replicating that model needs to be done more selectively. There's also massive value in keeping the same unit together over time and not trying to buy in solutions. Sure our KPP stocks seem perilous, but I'm not sure diluting our trading options for someone who has been below average much more than above average is ideal. If we could get him at Gumbleton prices, then we should be very interested.
;p
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DougGreen said You Beaut

DougGreen Re: Aaron Black 8 years 10 months ago #69

DougGreen
Don't have a problem with trading if that can make our list better but either because we're on the wrong side of the country or because Bond is a useless knob we don't seem to be very attractive to the best KPPs out there. We tried for both Buddy and Tippett didn't we?

There is no value in selling the farm to get a 2nd rate KPP. Only go for the best and maybe the best way to trade for the best KPP is to have an over abundance of quality mids on our list first. That and sack of cash plus a couple of premiership cups in our trophy cabinet.
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Corporal Agarn Re: Aaron Black 8 years 10 months ago #70

Corporal Agarn
Brown Is the new Black, Browski?

I agree with you about him though. He looks good, moves well and has all the attributes i think we need. One problem though, didn't he recently re-sign with the Roos?
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