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TOPIC: Remember a bloke called Toby Green

Morgan Remember a bloke called Toby Green 1 week 6 days ago #15

Morgan
There are also very few former Supreme Court Appeal Justices who who would jeopardise their integrity or standing to acquiesce to a lightweight like Gil.
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Noddy Remember a bloke called Toby Green 1 week 6 days ago #16

Noddy
If the process was dodgy how can the outcome be reasonable?
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jezzaargh Remember a bloke called Toby Green 1 week 6 days ago #17

jezzaargh
it’s ends and means Noddy, two separate things.

a good outcome doesn’t justify a dodgy process
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Morgan Remember a bloke called Toby Green 1 week 6 days ago #18

Morgan
I honestly don’t know how it is dodgy. In it’s tribunal processes the AFL has tried as best it can to replicate the judicial system, in part to prevent clubs from taking AFL tribunal decisions they don’t like to court. They’ve even appointed respected ex-judges to preside.

The crown is entitled to appeal a sentence they don’t consider adequate. Why should the AFL be precluded from doing the same for its own competition?
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The_Yeti Remember a bloke called Toby Green 1 week 6 days ago #19

The_Yeti
You're still missing the point, morgan.

The AFL is not trying and has never tried to replicate the judicial system. A better example would be the Soviet era show trials.

Had they done anything other than put on dog and pony shows, we would not the system we have now.

Do you think that Michael Christian watches every game over a weekend? That would be a no. He, an AFL employee, deals with incidents referred to him by the AFL and doesn't that result in some very strange and bizarre results where similar situations have radically different outcomes.

I'm not one to be too quick to rely on 'respected ex-judges'. There's been a few of those who have wound up in prison. The panel that cleared the Essendon players a few years ago didn't fare too well when their 'judgment' was utterly shredded by all but the AFL. The AFL got the result that it wanted...for a while anyway. The only way you can be sure the tribunal process is above board is to have transparency and we have never had that. Plus, the presiding officer doesn't make the decision. A jury of former players makes the call, not respected ex-anything. These players have been used to sit in judgment on former team mates but there's no potential for shenanigans there, right?

The appeal panel also had at least three former players making the decision. Other appeals panels also feature former players.

Greene aside, there is no genuine judicial system that does the role of the police, the courts and the appeals when the entity controlling all of those functions has a massive financial motive for maintaining full control of the outcomes. These functions should all be independent of each other and independent of the parent organisation and they simply are not in any way independent.
Egurls Suck!
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Raglan Matt said You Beaut

Morgan Remember a bloke called Toby Green 1 week 6 days ago #20

Morgan
Back to my original question then, if the AFL doesn’t appoint and pay the reviewers and decision makers for its own competition, who does?
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hypen Remember a bloke called Toby Green 1 week 6 days ago #21

hypen
To me the AFL do have the right to appeal based on contesting the severity of a penalty.

You just say, you are appealing on the grounds of the penalty being too lenient. You don't provide the commentary Gil did. You do that after the appeal hearing. You know these things better than I. Whether you think the judges are above coercion or not, it doesn't justify attempted coercion.

And six weeks is brutal Morgan, that's a quarter of a season. Totally inappropriate what he did, no doubt.
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Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

Morgan Remember a bloke called Toby Green 1 week 6 days ago #22

Morgan
I'm not Gil's biggest fan, but this is what he said:

"I welcome the Tribunal verdict that it was intentional conduct and handing down a sanction. [But] if I’m honest, I find it hard, personally, to reconcile how it can be intentional conduct that was aggressive, demonstrative and disrespectful - it was found to be all of those things - and then only be three weeks. As the CEO of the League, I'm saying to community leagues and others that I find the decision perplexing. I’ve spoken to the lawyers about our appeal rights clearly. They’re looking at that at the moment. We won’t muck around. You don’t appeal lightly, so we’ll get some advice, contextualise it all, and make a decision as quick as we can,"

The next day or so they appealed in the basis the sentence was manifestly inadequate, which is just a fancy way of summarising what Gil said. As far as I'm aware, he hasn't said anything since.

I don't understand the accusation of it all being a show trial. If this was all arranged behind closed doors there's no way the Tribunal hands down a decision the CEO and GC of the AFL are furious about, to the point they need to rather embarrassingly appeal their own Tribunal's sentence. Rather, that's exactly the sort of messiness that happens when the Tribunal is acting independently.

The problem was the Tribunal's decision, as Gil pointed out, was perplexing. As Shane pointed out at the time, on the wording of the charge 'intentional' contact was a little difficult to make out, but a lessor charge only carried a fine. I think the Tribunal tried to have a bob each way and find Toby guilty, but keep the suspension to a minimum. I think that ended up doing Toby a disservice in the end.
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Raglan Matt Remember a bloke called Toby Green 1 week 5 days ago #23

Raglan Matt
The AwFl's penchant for writing the rules ambiguously, to get the results they want has come back to bite them big time with this case, and they deserve all the flack that heads their way. Don't blame the tribunal, they are only trying to follow the procedures the AwFl have put in place.
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