TOPIC: Change. When? How? Back to road ahead

Mushroom Change. When? How? Back to road ahead 4 weeks 1 day ago #15

Mushroom
you mooches keep banging on about sticking with the old game plan, but the "old" game plan from what I saw in the 2013 prelim I just rewatched and what I remember of plenty of other games through that year was movement ahead of the play that created real, not random chance,scoring opportunities.

The successful teams still do this, so it's not like it doesn't work.

The only people who've given a substantial suggestion of why Freo stopped this are shane (slackness) and hypen (uber defensiveness). We can't really test the theories but we can do something about them.

Just a couple of pointers for the incoming coach - ironically whom might currently be a defence coach.
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rogerrocks said You Beaut

hypen Change. When? How? Back to road ahead 4 weeks 1 day ago #16

hypen
I think Mushroom guys like Lyon and Roos saw two types of football. The style that could get you into finals and the stuff that won flags. That 2013 prelim was a ridiculous level of pressure and I'm sure in Lyon's mind that was what was needed to win a flag. But that 2013 team was a bunch of seasoned, tough, spirited bunch who could deliver. Its why Lyon never played kids. Kids cant deliver on that style - you've had four years of watching them try. And Lyon's starting point in training them was to get the defensive formation right. It took a while in 2012 for experienced big bodied players time to adjust. So i think your answer is these kids just couldn't deliver on Lyon's style.

And here's the thing, Hawthorn won three flags based on balance, efficiency, field position and ball use. And yes skill.
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Mushroom Change. When? How? Back to road ahead 4 weeks 1 day ago #17

Mushroom
So, you're telling me that being unable to make leads, or simply move rather than stand still is all because you have to be a porn-hard, seasoned, big-bodied footballer?

Let's get this straight, there are numerous things that need fixing. I'm not talking about the whole of everything that happens in the game, just the bit where my team has the ball and needs to move it forward.

Freo's game devolved to stagnation when in possession unless it was in the hands of Bradley Hill - who forced people to move their arses by moving his own arse very quickly. In seasons long past, indeed under Lyon, players ahead of the ball moved their arses even when the bloke with the ball was still.

This is not defensive setup. It's nothing. It's the nothing fans have been complaining about that made Freo footy unwatchably boring and bad.
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rogerrocks, Raglan Matt, Down on down said You Beaut

shane Change. When? How? Back to road ahead 4 weeks 1 day ago #18

shane
If people understood how bad we've been playing, Lyon would have gone much sooner. It's not his defensiveness that's been an issue, it's the disorganisation and lack of coaching.

He'd been phoning it in since midway through 2015. Sumich called him out on in three years ago so they got rid of Sumich instead of telling Rosich to lift. If ever there was a text book case of resting on your laurels, it was Ross Lyon's last 4 years.
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The_Yeti, Bizkit, Dockerplus, cletus, Jango, pollyanna, quercus, Matebe, JackH, Raglan Matt said You Beaut and this user have 5 others thankyou

CaptSnooze Change. When? How? Back to road ahead 4 weeks 1 day ago #19

CaptSnooze
Actually we have no idea how good the list is going to be. Take Bewley. Came to Freo as a good kick, which we saw in his first game. Thereafter, has gone backwards.
Lyon leaves a mess.
Hopefully it will not take too long to shake off the straitjacket and rediscover their instinct and flair
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hypen, Raglan Matt, Corporal Agarn, freo00 said You Beaut

Raglan Matt Change. When? How? Back to road ahead 4 weeks 1 day ago #20

Raglan Matt
This is a good read.

What Next??
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pollyanna Change. When? How? Back to road ahead 4 weeks 23 hours ago #21

pollyanna
Steve is gone and Mushroom is back - you cant keep a fungi down.
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The Spud Change. When? How? Back to road ahead 4 weeks 21 hours ago #22

The Spud
Ross Lyon invented the McDonalds of football. Systems based, no skill required. Where McDonald's only requires 14 year old pimply faced kids to pump out enough marginally edible food to be successful, in Ross' world, a simplified, systems-based approach doesn't/shouldn't require elite players to make it work. In Ross' world you stand in a certain place depending on all the variables at play (where the ball is, are you in defence or attack and the myriad of other things they would train), and when you get the ball in position X you kick it to position Y. Usually just in the vicinity of position Y, hence no actual elite kicking required. His game plan is the epitome of using role players in every position, but if you happen to have a Pavlich of Fyfe in your team, that is a bonus.

The thing is, it works to a large degree, except that Ross doesn't also run the AFL who get to change the rules as they see fit, and as others have suggested the limiting of rotations hurt his plan and he couldn't/wouldnt adapt. If a gourmet burger joint happens to move next door (Hawthorn 2012-2015) you might be able to compete, but you'll always be dishing up second rate stodge. And now Ross is gone, and McDonalds is serving SALAD.
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ghq, Ezzun said You Beaut

Ezzun Change. When? How? Back to road ahead 4 weeks 21 hours ago #23

Ezzun
Good post Spud

Plenty to digest there...
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DocDocker, shane, CaptSnooze, purple mao, Corporal Agarn, The Spud, R.Lyon said You Beaut

The Spud Change. When? How? Back to road ahead 4 weeks 19 hours ago #24

The Spud
Food for thought.

Sorry, too obvious.
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expat Change. When? How? Back to road ahead 4 weeks 19 hours ago #25

expat
Should I use my 2 for 1 coupon or go trade?
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Raglan Matt Change. When? How? Back to road ahead 4 weeks 19 hours ago #26

Raglan Matt
The biggest problem with Lyon's game plan was not the rule changes brought in by the AFL, it was the changes made by opposition coaches, if you can't see that, then you can't see why Lyon was sacked.
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CaptSnooze Change. When? How? Back to road ahead 4 weeks 17 hours ago #27

CaptSnooze
From Dale's interview on the ABC today, the next appointment will be a reasonably lengthy process. This partly decided the timing of the sackings, to clear the way for that process to get moving.
- Want to improve the internal coaching culture
- Want someone who is not just a good footy coach, but who will attract assistant coaches. Make Fremantle attract and produce good ass coaches.
So while they will look at Fremantle-connected people, they are casting the net wide across the AFL and not just looking at experienced senior coaches.

My impression is that they're looking to emulate the Hawthorn / Brisbane / West Coast model, where good practice radiates outwards from a good senior coach.
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The_Yeti, hypen, cletus, Corporal Agarn, R.Lyon said You Beaut

shane Change. When? How? Back to road ahead 4 weeks 17 hours ago #28

shane
It also says a lot of what he thought about the previous coach, without having to say it.
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The_Yeti, DocDocker, Bizkit, cletus, Raglan Matt, Corporal Agarn, R.Lyon said You Beaut