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TOPIC: Jordan Clark

Mushroom Jordan Clark 2 years 6 months ago #253

Mushroom
Once again though, Gumnut, you don't know that is what has happened and you are presuming based on...um...heresay of journos and trade radio (whatever this is).

Do you not consider that a conversation could have been along the lines of "if we can get the deal done with Geelong, would you be happy with X?". A professional working in the trade player space would do exactly this. It then makes the trade with the club the trigger for the next bit - the offer of a contract. Not the other way around.

Which makes it understandable that a player such as Clark would be snitty with Geelong for being unreasonable in the bargaining process for the trade. Talk of new contract offers, which is what Geelong are trying to bring into it, are not even part of it.

Who'd have thunk there could be so much value in an "if". But, there is. And it should not be ignored to make things absolute. Derivativate over it.
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shane Jordan Clark 2 years 6 months ago #254

shane
The value comes from an intangible thing that you don't fully understand, Bizkit, because you are completely caught up in the game of trading and drafting above the outcome.

We should be targeting what we want and getting it, not shopping around for the best value so we look good at trading.
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Montrachet Jordan Clark 2 years 6 months ago #255

Montrachet
There has to be limits Gumnut. I dare say the club and manager even discuss what they think they trade will look like before they start talking about a contract. Freo would have said they were prepared to offer pick 27 as that is what they had to offer (no way would 8 have been on the table) and the manager probably agreed that was reasonable and should get it done. If so, beyond offering pick 27 the club is not obligated to do anything. They'd have had no idea they could get their hands on 19 & 22.
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Gumnut Jordan Clark 2 years 6 months ago #256

Gumnut
I do get that Biz and I agree with you but the issue here is that the 4 year bit is what was mentioned and now that is being put forth as Geelong's reasoning for standing firm. Should the terms of the contract have been made public because that's become part of the problem. Had Belly when questioned on the deal just said yes we're looking at offering him a contract but NOT mentioned the 4 years would we be in this predicament?
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pollyanna Jordan Clark 2 years 6 months ago #257

pollyanna
It would be great if we got Clark and he kicked 6 goals in the first game against Geebung. HARHARHAR!
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Blue1red1, shane, Gumnut, expat, Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

Gumnut Jordan Clark 2 years 6 months ago #258

Gumnut
Mushy, have a look at that article on SEN. The comment accredited to Belly was in inverted commas. That intimates that as a quote of what Belly said. You do know what a quote is I assume. I'm not referring to trade gossip Mushy. This is something that apparently came out of Belly's mouth.
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DS Jordan Clark 2 years 6 months ago #259

DS
You’re assuming SEN journalists know correct grammar. Big assumption.
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Raglan Matt said You Beaut

Mushroom Jordan Clark 2 years 6 months ago #260

Mushroom
I don't know what that article is, but it makes no difference as a contract comes after a trade deal not vice-versa which means it is all trumped up nonsense in bargaining for a trade. Like Bell, loathe Bell or think Bell is closer to the devil incarnate than the enitity that is West Coast Eagles as hypen does, he is astute enough to know this.
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Freo66 Jordan Clark 2 years 6 months ago #261

Freo66
Got to love the Melbourne media.

AFL deadline day LIVE: Gun’s ‘heated’ chat with Cats; Swan dealt and Bombers’ move close
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Bizkit Jordan Clark 2 years 6 months ago #262

Bizkit
Bell said he didn't know the exact ins and outs of the contract, but it was likely to be a 4 year contract. Again, it's not a guarantee but an estimate and we have no obligation.
Nathan: When did you get balls?
Simon: I've always had balls you've just never seen them.
Nathan: That's the gayest thing I've ever heard.
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The_Yeti, Gumnut said You Beaut

Gumnut Jordan Clark 2 years 6 months ago #263

Gumnut
I know Biz, but I wish he hadn't that last bit. I'm a huge Belly fan but he should have kept that to himself.
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Bizkit Jordan Clark 2 years 6 months ago #264

Bizkit
I don't disagree we should be trying to get the best deal Shane but you can't go giving up anything for a player you're targeting. There is a value to it all and that's what this posturing is about. Geleong are severely over-valuing a player they refuse to give a game. We folded to move higher in the draft and get them what they wanted and now they want more. We can't keep folding to their demands at the expense of our future and at some point you have to walk away.

I know you like the here and now in terms of trades and what players are able to achieve but you do need to look at this time of year with an eye for the future. It's a large part of how you build your list and gear up for a premiership assault when there are 17 other clubs all trying to do the same. If you continually under value your own hand, you'll never make it out of the bottom half of the ladder to challenge.
Nathan: When did you get balls?
Simon: I've always had balls you've just never seen them.
Nathan: That's the gayest thing I've ever heard.
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slammen, Down on down, Docker by the Sea said You Beaut

shane Jordan Clark 2 years 6 months ago #265

shane
I don't accept the premise that we can correctly value a player at pick 19 or pick 22. It is well within the margin of error. Folding to their demands is just an ego thing. If we get what we want then it doesn't matter if they look stronger than us. That's unprofessional.

I don't care if we get Clark or not. What I care about is that we have a team of people who decided that Clark was a target but then it comes down to a gap of 4 untested 17 year olds and we walk away. If we needed him then what is the plan? Use pick 22 to replace him? We could have done that from that start. If he we don't need him then what were we going to do with him when we got him?

We should be swapping what we don't need for what we need. Not trying to create value and get bargains.

We have done this a lot. It looks to me like our recruiting department is the one in the hear and now. They don't plan properly or they don't execute their plan properly, but we end up collecting players that aren't quite as good as we needed but it's ok because we got them for a good price. We've got a squad full of people we got for a good price.
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Blue1red1, goodie, Gumnut, pollyanna, 391, Raybeez said You Beaut

391 Jordan Clark 2 years 6 months ago #266

391
Hindsight is 20/20 but Melbs GF list build is illuminating

Melbourne looked like they had a plan that worked.

Targeted defensive KPPs - May and Lever bought in via Trades.
Got value from their traded out platers and paid unders for ones they traded in. (Offloaded Jesse at his highest value in the (draft / trade) market. Likely based on his Melb performances or role in that team we undervalued Langdon).

www.zerohanger.com/the-five-year-list-bu...and-final-afl-91170/

Additionally, Tim Kelly, Shiel, Saad, Zac Williams all examples where club they went to paid overs (in my opinion).

Lets say 22 slides to 24 or 25, and 19 slides to 21. Chance to take WA KPPs at those picks based on draft boards.
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Raglan Matt said You Beaut
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