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TOPIC: Intention

shane Intention 2 years 7 months ago #43

shane
I didn't like to say that, but it's what I was thinking. You do get a bit hysterical when it comes to handing out penalties to players from other teams.
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The_Yeti Intention 2 years 7 months ago #44

The_Yeti
Wait till I get warmed up.
Egurls Suck!
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pollyanna Intention 2 years 7 months ago #45

pollyanna
I say, keep the press going - this is a fantastic win for more media attention. First delay the decision for a couple of days, let it build to a global frenzy - then let him off with a $100 fine and throw the gates wide open!
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shane, Davo said You Beaut

purple kit Intention 2 years 7 months ago #46

purple kit
Chris Scott will call a press conference just so he can show everyone his clown ball game face and not actually say anything if Greene gets off with a fine
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shane Intention 2 years 7 months ago #47

shane
www.afl.com.au/news/673109/tribunal-live...guilty-jury-revealed

9.30am: Umpire Matt Stevic sent an email after the match that said: "I was aware he made some minor contact with me … I considered the contact minor and didn't feel threatened at the time." He is now being called to provide evidence.

9.40am: Umpire Stevic has been called to provide evidence. He says: "As Toby got closer, he challenged me on a particular decision and said the player had 'f***ing dived'. I felt some minor contact. From what I recall on the day, Toby accepted that and we moved on from there. In regards to making match-day reports for player contact with an umpire, we need to be 100 per cent sure that the contact was unreasonable, unnecessary or intentional. At the time, I wasn't 100 per cent sure if there were other factors that may have contributed. Seeing the vision post-game, it made clear to me that I was stationary. I did not step into Toby or cause the contact."
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shane Intention 2 years 7 months ago #48

shane
11.06am: We are back from our break. Jeff Gleeson QC lodges his final submission, saying that "umpires are untouchable". He continues: "It's fundamental to our game … that the umpire is respected. The moment any of us deviate from enforcing that rule, because it's hard, is the moment we change the game and the way our umpires are treated." Gleeson says Greene "complained, swore, got in his face, and bumped him". He said Greene's actions were "insolent and contemptuous".

I think if you are going to say that umpires are untouchable, as a fundamental principal, then it's also beholden on umpires to get out of the way of players and not interact with them as they leave the ground. I don't think that should happen, I think the fundamental principal should change. People bump into each other incidentally all the time outside of football. It's going to happen. It should come down to whether or not the umpire felt threatened; or in play if it was something that put the umpire in danger. Putting your hand on an umpire's back as you talk to him, brushing past them, tapping them on the shoulder...these are normal interactions.

The problem is that the AFL tribunal will not make a subjective assessment of things and hand out appropriate penalties, I assume because they don't want nasty things said about them by the football media, so we get stuck with fundamentalists. They need to bring someone in from the VRC stewards to try and overhaul the culture.
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mac Intention 2 years 7 months ago #49

mac
Offer Toby to choose his sentence.
Suspended Five games 2021/22
Or play this years finals ( which could be one game ) and is suspended 11 games 2022.
I feel for teams when a best player has let down team mates, supporters when its finals.
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Morgan Intention 2 years 7 months ago #50

Morgan
That’s an interesting take.

My take is that every week 396 players run around for a couple of hours and most of them manage to not bump into umpires even during frenetic and congested passages of play where umpires are sometimes in the way.

Fewer still bump into them after the siren.

If they do make contact, some of them get away with it because it’s not deemed unreasonable, unnecessary or intentional.

Greene might not have consciously meant to bump Stevic, but he did so in the middle of a conversation he seemed to instigate about a free kick he didn’t agree with. The incident happened at three-quarter time, when Hogan had a shot after the siren (they weren't leaving the ground). Every player and umpire was in the same patch of the ground. I don’t think asking the umpires to run away as soon as the siren sounds lest they get accidentally bumped by an irate player is really the right solution.

I don’t think Greene should be hanged. I think a week would suffice given the gravity of missing a final, but there’s no discount applied for that, so maybe he’ll get two.

I’ve spent a lot of time on here arguing things are often more nuanced than people make out, but bumping an umpire while disputing a decision seems pretty black-and-white to me.
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docked, Raglan Matt said You Beaut

pollyanna Intention 2 years 7 months ago #51

pollyanna
Listen, I'm no fundamentalist but my grandson is thinking about taking up a boundary umpire training role in the under 12s outside of Mildura in the country amateurs. What's his future if they don't cut off one of Toby's ears and nail it to a fence post on the southern road into town?
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The_Yeti, shane said You Beaut

shane Intention 2 years 7 months ago #52

shane
Look, he's not going to get away with nothing, so people can stop acting like defending his actions means no penalty. There is a wall of comment out there suggesting he should be getting penalties akin to Greg Williams assaulting an umpire. That's insane.

He should get a fine for not being careful enough but he will get a week or more because of the hysterical nonsense about how it looked. It only 'looked' that way because the football media beat everyone up into a frenzy. If the first commentator had said - there was nothing in that - then there would have been nothing in it and he would have been given the normal sanctions. That has to change. You can't have Brian Taylor deciding right and wrong. The man can't even light a stove.
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finalport said You Beaut

shane Intention 2 years 7 months ago #53

shane
* Although he might get off because he's been charged with making intentional contact with an umpire. I don't know what the rule is, the AFL have a habit of ignoring the meaning of words when they are naming rules.
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Morgan Intention 2 years 7 months ago #54

Morgan
They'll get him on 'unnecessary'.

Did you watch the broadcast? Hodge led the defence in his post-match interview.

“We saw you had a collision with the umpire running past, it looked like you were in a tractor beam running towards your teammates. An accidental bit of contact,” Hodge asked.

EDIT: I just looked it up, and 'unnecessary is a fine only, so, yeah, I'm guessing that's why they went with intentional.
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pollyanna Intention 2 years 7 months ago #55

pollyanna
Now that the jury are off to 'deliberate' someone should point out that the word is both an adjective and a verb.
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shane Intention 2 years 7 months ago #56

shane
If they let him off entirely it's farcical but if they find him guilty of intentional contact, just because they have no back up option, he will appeal it and presumably win or go to court. Both accounts suggest that it was not intentional contact, and the reactions in the video are consistent with the accounts given.

I feel like, to use a legal term, they have rooted this up.
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