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TOPIC: 2021 List Size Confirmed

jezzaargh Re:2021 List Size Confirmed 3 years 6 months ago #29

jezzaargh
this whole “10, 28” thing is doing my head in. but, it’s not as bad as it seems at face value, especially because we can trade more future picks and get ourselves out of the hole by digging a bit deeper...
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shane, Purple Shades said You Beaut

purplepower 2021 List Size Confirmed 3 years 6 months ago #30

purplepower
I wouldn’t go for every NGA player , the one we need to go for is Webster again 25 disposals and 4 inside 50 in the colts grand final...
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Bizkit 2021 List Size Confirmed 3 years 6 months ago #31

Bizkit
I wouldn't expect a bid to come before our first pick so we should get 3 top talents. For mine, the top 5 of the draft are fantastic players but it evens out a bit after that. Probably the next 20 or so players are of a similar level and should be very good players.

The way I see things going is we take the best available to fit any holes in our list with our first pick (a line breaking running midfielder is my priority for our list). A bid for Brandon Walker will probably come around the 20-25 mark ahead of our second pick which basically pushes it a little up the order. Western is likely to be a bit after that (30-40 region) and we might have to eat into next year's picks if we don't trade for a better draft hand this year. After that, we wait and see what's available to add to the list later on with the cat B rookies (Chris Walker for example or a ruckman like Kalin Lane if available).

We're likely to take the 3 picks although if a bid doesn't come till after our second pick, it'd be great to add 4 to the list with Walker and Western plus pick 10 & 28.
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Morgan 2021 List Size Confirmed 3 years 6 months ago #32

Morgan
I don’t think we’d get great value out of trades for players like Blakely, Hughes and Duman, but that doesn’t necessarily mean we shouldn’t trade them. A lot depends on whether JLo thinks they will be regulars next year. You don’t want to carry too many blokes on the list who are resentful for not getting a game. I also don’t think it’s fair to those players to be wasted down at Peel if they could be getting a game in the AFL.

That’s where JLo, Bell, the player and his agent need to have honest conversations about how they see next year playing out. Some players would prefer to stay at Freo and try and fight their way into the team, some would prefer to try and carve out a career at a new club.

I always admired how Jon Griffin elected to stay at Freo knowing he was always going to be in Sandi’s shadow. Equally, I had no issue with the way Freo let Roberton leave to pursue a career at home with the Saints.

For what it’s worth I think we should trade Blakely. I’m not sure Hughes is in our best 22, but he’s so hard at it I would never count him out to hold his spot. If he’s a back-up defender it’s a great luxury to have. I really like Duman, but that backline is going to be really difficult for him to crack, and he’s a Victorian kid. I wouldn’t blame him or the club if they considered a trade.
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Matebe 2021 List Size Confirmed 3 years 6 months ago #33

Matebe
We spend years trying to develop depth in our list, and now we just flip players on the basis that they might not get a game? That's not how premiership squads are built.
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Morgan 2021 List Size Confirmed 3 years 6 months ago #34

Morgan
I get where you are coming from Matebe, but I disagree. We’ve got a pretty even squad at the moment, which means some good players – particularly mid-sized defenders – are not going to maximise their potential in our team.

Let’s say for the sake of argument that some combination of Pearce, Hamling and Cox are key tall backs, that means we’ve Ryan, Logue, Wilson, Hughes, Conca, Young, Duman and Watson all vying for a few spots for the next few years. We’ve still got Hill for (hopefully) a couple of years, and other players like Cerra, Aish or Acres who could easily slot to half-back at times.

depth is great, but managers need to think fourth dimensionally about the list. If we trade Duman, for example, it’s unlikely we’re getting a player better than Duman in return with whatever pick we receive; but what we might get is a player who is a better fit for our team in three years’ time (eg, a genuine tall defender). A player who is 90% as good as Duman but who plays 90% of available games in the 2024 team is more valuable than Duman is for us the next few years if he’s only playing 30% of our games. Assuming we are good for the next 5 years, our draft position declines which means getting talent in the door in future years will be more difficult.

I’d be more than happy to keep them all, so long as they are happy to stay and spend a bit of time at Peel; but Ryan Nyhuis is a recent example of a similar type of player who would have benefited from having a crack with a different team.
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Raglan Matt 2021 List Size Confirmed 3 years 6 months ago #35

Raglan Matt
With all those defenders, why would you get rid of three of them just so you could slot Cerra, Aish or Acres into half back? I would leave them where they are, they are doing ok.
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Leed 2021 List Size Confirmed 3 years 6 months ago #36

Leed
Not having a crack at you Morgan but I don't get the maths?

"A player who is 90% as good as Duman but who plays 90% of available games in the 2024 team is more valuable than Duman is for us the next few years if he’s only playing 30% of our games."

Are you saying that someone who is not as good as Duman will likely play 3 times as many games as Duman were Duman to still be on the list in 2024? Why 2024? Duman is a known quantity as well. Too confusing. Maybe Corporal Agarn can help coz he aint as dumb as everyone thinks he is :)
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Bizkit 2021 List Size Confirmed 3 years 6 months ago #37

Bizkit
I should point out, we'll be adding another medium sized running defender in Brandon Walker to that list so we'll have an abundance of players in the half back position. I'd be looking to trade some of those excess players who aren't going to get much of a go if they have trade currency. If they don't then they can stay on the list and fight for a spot for a while longer before getting delisted.

Bear in mind, list sizes will drop again next year.
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Raglan Matt 2021 List Size Confirmed 3 years 6 months ago #38

Raglan Matt
That is assuming we take Walker, I thought all here advocated taking player types we need, not the "MPFC".
You were all deriding the continual drafting of mids in the recent past, but now it is all good to draft too many running defenders???
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shane 2021 List Size Confirmed 3 years 6 months ago #39

shane
What's a running defender? Someone quick, who can read the play, take a mark and kick the ball well. Those seem like transferable skills.
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Morgan 2021 List Size Confirmed 3 years 6 months ago #40

Morgan
Leed, to answer your question, if you look at someone like Nyhuis, he played 17 games in three years and was delisted. I thought he could play a bit, and had Hughes and Duman not been in the squad Nyhuis might have played more AFL games and developed into a useful player – instead he’s out of the AFL. It’s no-one’s fault, that’s how it goes at the margins of an AFL list.

I can’t see Hughes, Duman, and Watson all playing more than half the games next year. Duman had a good season, so perhaps he’s inked his spot in the team, but I feel like one or more of those three players is destined to be stuck in the seconds and be delisted in a year or two. It seems a bit of a waste for both player and club.

On the flip side, Brett Bewley is nominally our starting wingman (we need an upgrade there), and we don’t really have much in the way of young tall defenders. They are two spots I’d be look at drafting young WA kids.

We’ve also historically traded out future second round picks like we’re getting payday loans, so it might not be the worst thing to bank a few future picks.

But all of these are marginal calls. If the players are keen to stay, they are good guys to have around the club, and the club isn’t sure which of them will claim a spot, then keeping all of them is a perfectly valid approach.
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number 2 2021 List Size Confirmed 3 years 6 months ago #41

number 2
We should get a late second or early third round pick for McCarthy right?

Oh yeah...
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Bizkit 2021 List Size Confirmed 3 years 6 months ago #42

Bizkit
You'd jump at Brandon Walker as a free hit every day of the week. We have exclusive rights to match any bid for him so there's no reason to not grab him unless you thought he was useless (which he certainly is not). Walker playing the same role as a number of players already on the list has no bearing on us taking him. He's likely to be an upgrade on most players at half back and would push into other positions on the ground if he progresses well. As possibly the most athletic all round prospect in the draft you would want him at your club. Even more so when he's one of the best and most damaging disposers of the footy in the draft.

In any case, that list of half backs could be trimmed. Ryan is a lock and Wilson now he's regained form is in there too. Logue is more the third tall if two of Pearce, Hamling and Cox take the main KPF's so probably isn't in direct competition with the smaller players listed. Young gets the starting gong for mine as the other mid sized defender but I see him pushing up to a wing/midfield in the next couple of years. Hughes is incredibly versatile and plays in between as the 7th defender. He can play Conca's lock down roll and offer far more on the attacking side. He's also bigger, faster, younger, able to mark the ball and dispose of it better than Conca.

That leaves Conca on the outer as depth with Duman and Watson probably ahead of him for mine as younger improving players. Hopefully Walker will step above those guys soon enough so they probably aren't getting much of a game without injuries. It's good to have depth on the list and I can't see us getting anything at the trade table for them. If they wanted to explore opportunities elsewhere, I wouldn't be stopping them.
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