TOPIC: Tim Kelly - lock it in

shane Tim Kelly - lock it in 2 months 3 weeks ago #29

shane
I don't agree with that, hypen. We've had success in the draft and success in trading and we've had failures in both. You need a mix of both and you need to be good at both or you end up with half a dozen pretty good blokes who can't get a game and aren't worth anything in a trade.
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shane Tim Kelly - lock it in 2 months 3 weeks ago #30

shane
Most of our real recruiting success came when we were picking up local rookies under everyone's noses. We haven't done that for a while.
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Raglan Matt said You Beaut

bozza Tim Kelly - lock it in 2 months 3 weeks ago #31

bozza
I can understand both sides of the story. If we weren’t losing Llangdon and Hill I would probably rather ya go to the draft with what we have. However if we can basically replace Hill with Kelly we simply have to do it. We keep our first pick and get Henry on top of that provided the bid is after it. Something like this would be nice... Out Hill, Llangdon In Kelly, Jackson, Taylor and Henry. All local talent.
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Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

pollyanna Tim Kelly - lock it in 2 months 3 weeks ago #32

pollyanna
Everybody is thinking a like-for-like replacement of wingers - with Bradley (and maybe) Ed that's impossible. One of our best wingers was Matt Carr, he wasn't some speedy roadrunner that amassed heaps of possessions every game. Change your thinking ya mugs - and quit referring to Kelly like he's looking for a good nursing home. We would benefit enormously having him at Freo.
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Dr Sleep, shane, Raglan Matt, Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

Gumnut Tim Kelly - lock it in 2 months 3 weeks ago #33

Gumnut
I'm coming around to the benefits of having Kelly as a swap for Brad Hill, especially if we target a return to finals next year which with a fit and healthy list is not beyond us. We just need to make sure we have enough high picks to get the local talent in the draft and expose them early next year in order to fast track their development.
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Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

KELA Tim Kelly - lock it in 2 months 3 weeks ago #34

KELA
I do love a lacy winger.....
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expat Tim Kelly - lock it in 2 months 3 weeks ago #35

expat
Now I have read everything... Glen Quartermain: How the Fremantle Dockers get Tim Kelly trade deal done

Where do these idiots come from? Glen Quartermain takes the cake here...

In the article he wants us to give Brad Hill to St.Kilda for their pick 5. St.Kilda then give Stevens to Geelong.
Then we give picks 5 & 6 to Geelong or pick 5 plus Sean Darcy for Kelly, pick 18 and Sam Menegola.

So effectively we lose Brad Hill and our first round pick for Kelly and pick 18 plus an injury prone player.
or we lose Brad Hill, our first round pick and Sean Darcy for Kelly and pick 18 plus an injury prone player.

WTF!!!!

How come an out of contract player like Kelly is worth more than Brad Hill who has 2 years left on his contract?

In this scenario I think we are getting screwed royally and Glen Quartermain is a complete idiot.

Here's an excerpt from the article;
"So here is how the Dockers can “act in the best interest” of their stakeholders.

Hill is traded to St Kilda and the Saints’ first pick, No. 5, heads to Freo.

Steven is released to Geelong.

The Dockers then trade either picks five and six (their first) to Geelong for Kelly — or pick five and young ruckman Sean Darcy, who the Cats are into like scalpers on a finals ticket to help solve their dearth of ruck stocks. It is an area that could well cost them this year’s flag.

The Cats also send their first pick, currently 18, to Freo along with one last piece of the jigsaw — bullocking midfielder Sam Menegola.

WA’s Menegola has been squeezed out of the Geelong side after a long injury lay-off mid-season. It would be a remarkable return for Menegola, who the Dockers de-listed in 2014 — as did Hawthorn three years earlier.

Darcy, who Fremantle acquired with pick 38 in the 2016 national draft, re-signed with the Dockers for two years ahead of this season, but there may be merit in the move. He hails from Cobden in Victoria’s western districts, so would be returning home."
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Bizkit, slammen said You Beaut

hypen Tim Kelly - lock it in 2 months 3 weeks ago #36

hypen
You’re starting point is the draft. Rookies get drafted.

2006 was a high point on the back of the work done in 2000.

2013 was a high point on the back of the work done in 2007.

What we are experiencing right now is the fallout from disgraceful list management from six years ago. And organisational factors like whacko CEOs and coaches.
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Sox, Noddy, Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

shane Tim Kelly - lock it in 2 months 3 weeks ago #37

shane
2007 Draft
Rhys Palmer
Clayton Hinkley
Chris Mayne
Mark Johnson
Kepler Bradley

Pre-season
Josh Head

Rookie
Brent Connelly
Luke Pratt
Calib Mourish
Ryley Dunn

I don't think you can be too critical of any of those draft picks but only Mayne, and Bradley to an extent, went on to contribute anything to the club. That's more miss than hit. It's certainly not an indication of the foundations of a good list. 2008 was much better but it was still hit and miss.

There's plenty of room for trading picks when you're building a list.
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hypen Tim Kelly - lock it in 2 months 3 weeks ago #38

hypen
I wont bother defending that list.

There was a draft, I thought it 2007, but we nailed about five picks. Obviously was later than I was thinking.
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Grub Tim Kelly - lock it in 2 months 3 weeks ago #39

Grub
Does it matter where you get them in the draft other than it’s ammo for a pi$$ing contest?
If you picked SonSon at 2 instead of 50 something does it matter? You still got the player.
Brayshaw at 2 or 52 you still got Brayshaw. All it does is provide fodder for those that cherry pick players from 3 to 51 and point out you could have had them
Hit the WAFL late to top up - there is still talent there.
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slammen, Raglan Matt said You Beaut

Bizkit Tim Kelly - lock it in 2 months 3 weeks ago #40

Bizkit
The drafts you're looking for are in 2008/9 when Harvs took over and we grabbed a bunch of good local talent after the WA U18 side went gang busters for a couple of years. We grabbed Hill, Fyfe, Morabito, Ballas, Suban, Walters, DeBoer, Mayne and Clarke who were the backbone of our next push towards finals.

A similar thing occurred for our 2006 success where the likes of Pav, Hase and JLo were the basis of our push (albeit, with more traded in help like Farmer and McPharlin).

Everyone calling the draft a lottery doesn't know what they're talking about and how much effort and resources go into drafting anyone. Every variable possible is taken out in an effort to weigh up the likelihood of a kid succeeding at the next level. High picks are becoming more and more of a sure thing to succeed and low picks far less likely. Those who are unsuccessful or underwhelming tend to be speculative or picks where clubs reached in the draft (Logue).

We haven't properly gone to the draft in this 'perpetual rebuild' as we continue to top up the list with older recruits in an attempt to remain competitive in the mid to low range of the ladder. This year we have an opportunity to finally hit the draft given we're likely to trade a few players for good picks. I can't understand people wanting to get rid of them.

Kelly was the 3rd best midfielder at Geelong this year and that's with a far better role than the aging Joel Selwood who probably would have been more prolific if he wasn't pushed to a wing and the bench. Kelly is no messiah and would only be worthwhile at the right price if we were challenging for a premiership. However we aren't challenging for a premiership and the price is far from good. It's a hard pass from me.
Nathan: When did you get balls?
Simon: I've always had balls you've just never seen them.
Nathan: That's the gayest thing I've ever heard.
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The_Yeti, hypen, Sox, DocDocker, CaptSnooze, expat, R.Lyon, Timbo29 said You Beaut

slammen Tim Kelly - lock it in 2 months 3 weeks ago #41

slammen
What I really don't like is the way the media talks up the price of an out of contract Kelly but when it's announced that Langdon wants to get traded back to a Melbourne club they'll point out Melbourne clubs won't have to pay much for Langdon because he's out of contract.
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Sox said You Beaut

shane Tim Kelly - lock it in 2 months 3 weeks ago #42

shane
We had three picks in the top 5 in 1999 and one of them was Leigh Brown. We took Hasleby before Pavlich. Collingwood took Josh Fraser before any of them. They took Danny Roach at pick 7. Yeah, exactly. Who? Everyone thought they'd done a good job the day after the draft.

I didn't call it a lottery, but there's an element of risk. They're working with limited form and limited ability. It's not a supermarket where you can go and buy whatever you need as long as you've got enough money.

It's hit and miss and most of the footballers drafted will not go on to be anything of any great note and no one will know that for a few years, and no one will accept it for a few years after that. When you trade you at least know what you're getting. Then you can quibble over the price.
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Grub said You Beaut