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TOPIC: You're A Bald Headed Flog

shane You're A Bald Headed Flog 4 years 10 months ago #29

shane
One question. Seriously, I'm not being snarky.

If you are not gay, if there is no indication that you might be gay and if the perpetrator has given no indication that they think you are gay, is it anything more than a vulgarity to use a homophobic term.

I understand the broader concept of why it's inappropriate but in this case we'd have to be talking vilification for him to be kicked out.
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The_Yeti You're A Bald Headed Flog 4 years 10 months ago #30

The_Yeti
Which is exactly what I said when you made the statement that the guy deserved to be chucked out. Wait and see what the truth is.

Meanwhile further reports are coming out.

www.news.com.au/sport/afl/fan-at-carlton...f235f12fcd2a4600a94e

If the security guards confirm that it wasn't a homophobic insult, then Nicholls will have confirmed that he's just a flog. There'll be a list of them....
Egurls Suck!
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Morgan You're A Bald Headed Flog 4 years 10 months ago #31

Morgan
There's a longer and better answer to this, but I'll try to keep it short.

The target isn't the only person who hears that sort of language. If someone grows up gay, constantly hearing their identity being used to imply someone is useless or hated affects how they feel about themselves, and gay people have enough to deal with. Same-sex attracted Australians have up to 14x higher rates of suicide attempts than their heterosexual peers, and have much higher rates of depression and anxiety.

I know people tend to reach for the PC gone mad card, but stamping out homophobic language is abut trying to stop fewer people from having to feel their sexual orientation is a slur.
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hypen, Nodgey, Dr Sleep, rogerrocks, jezzaargh, Gerovich, Helenv said You Beaut

Raglan Matt You're A Bald Headed Flog 4 years 10 months ago #32

Raglan Matt
I fail to see how calling someone "A bald-headed flog" is a homophobic slur.
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shane You're A Bald Headed Flog 4 years 10 months ago #33

shane
Yeah, I covered that. Thanks for the effort but I don't need it explained to me. Do you think it's a coincidence you see very little of that here. Apologies for anything that gets through.

It's grossly offensive but is it vilification. I think it's an important difference in this situation.

The standard for language and abuse at the football has been quite liberal in my experience but the line is either constant use of vulgarity or vilification.

I'd prefer not to use en example but if he'd called him a retard, where would that sit? Seriously damaging term to people with mental disabilities and terms like that have caused a lot of damage the over a long time. I don't think the venue would consider it vilification of an umpire if it was shouted at one.
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Morgan You're A Bald Headed Flog 4 years 10 months ago #34

Morgan
Maybe it’s not a perfect analogy, but someone called an umpire the n-word, but the umpire was white, would the umpire be wrong for having him tossed?
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macdaddy You're A Bald Headed Flog 4 years 10 months ago #35

macdaddy
I like Morgan and the words Morgan posts.

I'm not too sure if the umpires pat themselves on the back when they're not umpiring. I think it's unfair to assume they do when it's consistently noted that they are incredibly reflective and critical of their own performance.
Moreover, I very much doubt that someone abusing an umpire will make them umpire the game better so doing so really is a waste of breath and an unnecessary verbal cannon of hatred.
I was given a clip under the ear whenever I said anything bad about an umpire as I was growing up.
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shane You're A Bald Headed Flog 4 years 10 months ago #36

shane
That's a silly example but from what I'm reading I gather you're saying that Nicholls wasn't vilified but the punter should be ejected for using a vulgar or offensive terms. If that's the case I think it should be communicated to the wider public because that's a change in the standard they have been tolerating.

(yes, RM, assuming he used one for the sake of the discussion)
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pollyanna You're A Bald Headed Flog 4 years 10 months ago #37

pollyanna
So nude-nut might offend some bloke that's had a scrotum waxing? Just asking in case the unspoken changes in etiquette have passed me by.
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Blue1red1, CaptSnooze, Stacksonthemill said You Beaut

freo00 You're A Bald Headed Flog 4 years 10 months ago #38

freo00
I think certain umpires can't understand why so many spectaters are yelling at them ?
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Stacksonthemill You're A Bald Headed Flog 4 years 10 months ago #39

Stacksonthemill
As a follicly challenged male, I take great offence at the title of this thread, however Polly, with the introduction of the "n" word, you've stepped well over the line!
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Blue1red1, pollyanna said You Beaut

Morgan You're A Bald Headed Flog 4 years 10 months ago #40

Morgan
I'm not sure it really requires vilification Shane. The AFL, and in this case the umpire in question, are trying to find the line where abusing an umpire or player goes from 'part of the pantomime' to something that crosses the line. I don't think that's an easy thing to do, and I certainly don't think there is an obvious bright line.

And then if a fan does cross the line, what should be the consequence?

Some would say that all swearing should be prohibited, but I'm personally not really offended by swearing and so I think that would be overkill. I probably swear too much at the football, to be honest. I've probably called umpires and opposing players 'd*ckheads' a fair bit. I'm not proud of it, but I would think it pretty unfair to be tossed.

But punters calling umpires 'maggots' is something I personally really dislike. I think it's the mix of being so artless and unoriginal, but also so dehumanising, that really rubs me up the wrong way. Yet most would say 'well it's not swearing so what's the problem?'.

Likewise, 'bald-headed flog' to me crosses the line, but probably not enough to have someone kicked out of a game. Flog is a word I use all the time, but I think as a general rule abusing people based on their physical characteristics probably crosses a line. Except if you're making fun of Daniel Rich's tiny arms, which is actually pretty funny.

I've seen crowds give it to umpire Nicholls a fair bit in his career. That he was visibly upset about what was said means something to me. I can't see anyone wanting to put a target on their back if they didn't think they had cause to make a show of it. I think other people see it as a chance to tee off on how bad an umpire he is, but I know for sure I would never be an umpire - let alone a good one - so I tend to have a fair bit of empathy for them. It's a pretty thankless gig, especially at lower levels, so I'm pretty comfortable with the AFL erring on the side of protecting them from people who get right up to that line.
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rogerrocks said You Beaut

pollyanna You're A Bald Headed Flog 4 years 10 months ago #41

pollyanna
Phew, I thought for a minute that Wee Arms Rich was off limits.
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Blue1red1 said You Beaut

Morgan You're A Bald Headed Flog 4 years 10 months ago #42

Morgan
I honestly don’t know how T-Rex man ties his shoelaces.
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Blue1red1, CaptSnooze, pollyanna said You Beaut