TOPIC: You're A Bald Headed Flog

shane You're A Bald Headed Flog 4 months 4 days ago #197

shane
One thing I've picked up on from this, which Joffa obviously feels too, is how far removed from the fans the industry is. The game is run by exfootballers and corporate high flyers who, if they've ever done so, don't seem to have bought a ticket to the football, or queued up for a pie, or sat in a crowd of people for a very long time.

The footy journalists don't quite know how to deal with it either, sitting up their in their catered boxes with their journo mates and their computers, watching the game behind protective glass and not wanting to upset the people who pay for it all.

And when Richard Goyder is in the paper talking about wanting a night grand final, despite his own research telling him the public would prefer to stick with tradition, it just all feels like they don't understand that the concept of being custodians of something that belongs to everyone. They're greedy bastards terrified of the world below them.
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shane You're A Bald Headed Flog 4 months 4 days ago #198

shane
And to prove the point of where the problem lies, Jeff Kennett is up and about throwing racial slurs at the poor blokes stuck doing management's dirty work.
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Drubbing You're A Bald Headed Flog 4 months 4 days ago #199

Drubbing
This is all over the news, not that the media needs much of a sports story to cover it form every angle...

We have the CEO of marvel stadium saying no way the AFL talked to him about patrolling aisles, and yet the Optus management seemed to have the same great idea at the same time.

The AFL pull this crap all the time with rules. An isolated indent or two and they immediately consider it an endemic problem and engineer a solution, which has the completely opposite effect.

At the same time, the media have got spotters for any incident, which creates a perception there is a problem.
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hypen You're A Bald Headed Flog 4 months 4 days ago #200

hypen
I just think its gotten a lot bigger than it needed to be. The punch ups were awful; just dreadful and people demanded action. So I am happy with security guards having a bit of a walk around, they did it at Subi all the time. I am happy with drunk people being turfed out irrespective of whether they are being abusive or not. You would at a pub. And I am happy with drunks not getting their tenth atomic pale ale. Not that I can get drunk on that garbage.

But instead of doing those things, they kind of started some weird mind mess with genuine fans.

And now they have a problem.
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Morgan You're A Bald Headed Flog 4 months 4 days ago #201

Morgan
“All I’m saying is the sporting arena is where people relax, where they support their tribe and what is happening now is unacceptable.”

“I don’t accept that the Marvel Stadium did it on their own. It is an asset owned by the AFL.”

“The AFL have got to understand they have a massive responsibility to the welfare of all those who attend the games because that is the moment of time when the fans can get away from home, get away from work and just watch their tribe perform in a competitive battle. That’s when they can let their emotions run free.”


Isn't Jeff just agreeing with you shane, but adding his own trademark flourish of a bit of casual racism?

If he wasn't so inclined to attribute any issue to non-white people he might be onto something; which is it is incredibly challenging for any person to ascertain on the spot whether fan behaviour strays into the antisocial/abuse range. I reckon that goes for police, security and long-term and hardcore fans.

If everyone - including the AFL, security, media and fans - could just chill out and say 'this is hard, and we're struggling to get a handle on what is appropriate' I reckon a sensible discussion could be had. Instead most people seem convinced they know exactly what is and isn't ok, whose fault it is, and why they are completely justified in being so bloody angry.

I'm sure these sorts of things happened before the 21st Century, but it seems very consistent with the times we currently live in.
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shane You're A Bald Headed Flog 4 months 4 days ago #202

shane
Is it that important you win an argument that you'd defend overt racism. His remarks are genuinely terrible.

He's seen some brown people and decreed them foreigners who can't understand the game of football. They're people doing a job. They could be 5th generation Australians for all he knows or they could have been in the country for a month. It's irrelevant. He's making a judgement on their competence based on an observation of the colour of their skin.

They're doing a job and following orders from management, they don't need some racist bastard with a stupid chin and a suit cut from the 90's telling them that white people would be better at the job.
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Morgan You're A Bald Headed Flog 4 months 4 days ago #203

Morgan
Sorry, maybe I didn't make my point clearly enough, but which part of my post do you think was sticking up for Kennett or supporting racism? I'm saying it's hard for anyone to draw the distinction, so Kennett's point is completely misguided, and betrays a more deep-seated inclination to blame non-whites for things.

How is that supporting Kennett and/or racism?
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Raglan Matt You're A Bald Headed Flog 4 months 4 days ago #204

Raglan Matt
Morgan, did you write the last 4 or 5 versions of the AFL laws of the game? You seem to be able to make statements say whatever you need them to say to defend your point.
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shane You're A Bald Headed Flog 4 months 3 days ago #205

shane
Casual racism, Morgan. That's what you called it. Flippantly, to continue an argument you found yourself on the wrong side of. After all your moral grandstanding over young umpires not taking up the game, you fobbed this off as something to gloss over on your way to whatever contortion of your original point you were trying to achieve.

Those security people are going to cop racial abuse this week because of Kennett and it will be difficult for them to deal with it because they'll have to be defending themselves. It will escalate because when they step in to help, the response from too many will be - Johnny Foreigner has no right to tell anyone what to do at the football.

This is the Adam Goodes situation playing out again. People like you will laugh it off and say - well, it's not really about race it's that they don't have the training.

It's bloody well about race now, and everyone needs to be very loud in denouncing Kennett or those people hired to keep us safe are going to cop it.
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Morgan You're A Bald Headed Flog 4 months 3 days ago #206

Morgan
It’s a common term, used to distinguish between overt racism (implying one race is superior) and other types of racism. I think it applies to what Kennett was saying. He wasn’t claiming superiority of a race, but what he was doing was just as toxic. It’s not a signifier of how seriously I was taking it.

www.humanrights.gov.au/about/news/what-casual-racism

“But the fact is you don’t need to subscribe to doctrines of racial superiority or incite racial violence to say or do something with racist implications. That’s because racism is as much about impact as it is about intention.”
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Rusted On You're A Bald Headed Flog 4 months 3 days ago #207

Rusted On
Then there's this incident.

thewest.com.au/sport/afl/afl-2019-vision...e704db8a65f266a989a7

Good thing they weren't at our game on the weekend.
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Quasimodo You're A Bald Headed Flog 4 months 3 days ago #208

Quasimodo
Shane I disagree on the casual racism view of what Kennett said, its blatantly racist. To infer that someone of different colour doesnt understand the culture surrounding our game is outrightly racist.

i agree these people will now find it harder to do their jobs because people will go oh you dont understand our culture.

My mum and dad were migrants but they are bloody Australians and we all love and understand the game. The number of kids from migrant backgrounds that play this game and have contributed to the game from grass roots to AFL level has just been dismissed by Kennetts idiotic comment.

I used to think he was a turd, then he did some good work for beyond blue and I thought maybe I was being harsh, now I realise I was right in the first place.
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The_Yeti You're A Bald Headed Flog 4 months 3 days ago #209

The_Yeti
Yeah, I don't know know if Kennett is a racist or just an idiot. (Granted he could be both)

I'm not sure he differentiated on the basis of colour but more on the basis of not being born here to have the understanding. He's wrong either way as immigrants often adopt particular aspects of their community and footy being such a big deal in Australia is one aspect that seems to get picked up pretty quickly.

The other point that he's missed completely is that the 'decision by Marvel Stadium' to ramp up crowd control to stupid levels happened at every venue around the country. Unless Marvel controls every ground (they don't) then the decision to keep the peasants in line was actually made by the AFL.

Now I know many will be shocked by the suggestion that the AFL would ever engage in poorly managed social engineering but poorly managed is what they seem to do best.

It has nothing to do with where the security guards have come from but (based on WA legislation) security guards require minimal training to be licenced. In WA, there have been examples where unsuitable people get licences, examples where training was just signed off regardless of the standard achieved and the fact that the industry is full of large types rather than smart types.

A poorly trained group of blokes is suddenly given instructions to crack down on crowd behaviour with minimal supervision and people wonder why it isn't all wine and roses. It is a recipe that could easily foster increased crowd violence as people (especially alcohol affected people) respond very poorly to heavy handed treatment.
Egurls Suck!
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shane You're A Bald Headed Flog 4 months 3 days ago #210

shane
Kennett made his comments from watching the tv where he saw people who were not white and drew the conclusion that they were recent immigrants. Everything argument he makes after that is based on a racist premise.

It appals me that he hasn't been called out on this. It's just not good enough for the AFL to allow those comments to sit there.

It's almost as if they looked at the Adam Goodes saga, listened to everything he's said about a lack of leadership on the issue and his disappointment with the league and decided that the all the problems lies with the public, who need a good does of authoritarian rule.
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