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TOPIC: New coach

darthmarto New coach 5 years 2 months ago #43

darthmarto
Not at all, just trying to work out what he actually did before I decide to get my pitchfork and torch.
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The_Yeti New coach 5 years 2 months ago #44

The_Yeti
Darthmarto,

mobile.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-13/montag...in-rape-case/5089834

One example of the reporting of what occurred
Egurls Suck!
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shane New coach 5 years 2 months ago #45

shane
The first post, dathmarto. It's an article about him giving evidence in court. This isn't gossip.

PhilGilbert, I've never had any sway over the readers of Dockerland. I've always been confused by the idea that anyone who reads the place regularly could form the opinion that people agree with me. Although it was put to me once by Mark Duffield that I should shut down criticism of the administration more often because...feelings.
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Suker New coach 5 years 2 months ago #46

Suker
Footy players are young men who are quickly thrust into local fame and some relative wealth. I wish that stupidity wasn't part of the package...but it is.
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Raglan Matt New coach 5 years 2 months ago #47

Raglan Matt
I am not looking for a pitchfork or torch, but would be slamming the door shut before he could walk in. He condoned what happened. That is enough to make him someone we don't want at our club. I also think we have been remiss in not dealing with the allegations against Montagna's mate Lyon in a more decent manner.
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Morgan New coach 5 years 2 months ago #48

Morgan
It’s a fraught subject, and on reflection probably not one easily or sensitively addressed on a footy forum. Certainly I regret an earlier comment of mine, meant to speak to my dim view of the trustworthiness of Montagna, but that was insensitive and could easily be read as minimising the situation; as could Shane’s initial post equating the ability to read and communicate the play on a footy field to reading the play in an indecent assault situation and lying to the court.

I don’t know Montagna. I suppose it’s possible for Milne to be guilty and also for Montanga to have been unaware of what was going on. I can’t speak to that. But even on the best version of events it doesn’t portray Montagna in the best light, and given the hundreds of people who could perform the role he wouldn’t be at the top of my list, and certainly not when Freo’s morals have recently been called into question.

But relationships are complex. Lyon continued to be a crisis support person for Milne long after he left St Kilda. That can be read as supporting a creep, or being a loyal person, or both. Perhaps it’s the same with Montagna. Certainly there have been plenty of other parties, like the AFL’s broadcast partners, who have given Montagna chances given his role in what happened. Perhaps 15 years later he’s entitled to be employed by a football club. Maybe even if he wasn’t a good person at 21, he is now at 35.

I don’t know.
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Suker New coach 5 years 2 months ago #49

Suker
The footy cliche, "It's a tough business, we all know it's a short career", etc.
Then why, why would we let anyone with even a whiff of dogshit on their shoes, into our front door.
WHY!!! There are countless others we can choose from.
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The_Yeti New coach 5 years 2 months ago #50

The_Yeti
Well, Morgan, your comments about him 'maybe' being a different person at 35 might well be true...or it might not.

To my knowledge, he's never changed his position, never condemned Milne's actions even after he pled guilty and he's never to my knowledge expressed any sympathy for the victim.

It's hard to make a case that's he's suddenly turned into a man of good character. Very hard.
Egurls Suck!
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The_Yeti New coach 5 years 2 months ago #51

The_Yeti
Further to that, neither has his mentor ever apologised for his actions or expressed either remorse for his actions or sympathy for the person affected.

So they have that in common as well
Egurls Suck!
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shane New coach 5 years 2 months ago #52

shane
Do you think his victim cares if he's a different person now than when he gave evidence against her, or do you think she sees a system that protects and provides for the people who took advantage of her, left her traumatised, called her a liar and escaped any meaningful punishment.

Do you think it's right that we, as a football club, make her life that little bit more traumatic when she hears he's once again landed on his feet from his profile and time at St Kilda.
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Raglan Matt New coach 5 years 2 months ago #53

Raglan Matt
Morgan, given some of the people the AFL's broadcast partners have employed and supported over the last 30 years, that is probably not the character reference you may be assuming it is. My dislike for the appointment has nothing to do with his football coaching skills, although I don't really regard them highly from what I have seen and heard on the AFL's broadcast partners. I think, regardless of his ability as a coach, he is not someone we should be employing. Someone somewhere has to take a stand. Freo is the someone somewhere in this instance.
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darthmarto New coach 5 years 2 months ago #54

darthmarto
Take a stand against what exactly?

Have we decided the evidence he gave at the Milne thing was untruthful? I would have thought that if it was, there would have been some judicial response long before now.
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Morgan New coach 5 years 2 months ago #55

Morgan
Shane, I don’t know what she thinks about Montagna, but I agree the system that protects the perpetrators of sexual assault is odious.

But in this instance the factual question is what the drunk 21 year old Montagna heard himself and could remember 10 years later. He said he didn’t hear anything untoward. The victim’s friend (who was sober) said she did and felt uncomfortable and left the room. Both those things could have been true. Montagna was either a passive participant in sexual misconduct or someone who was unaware of it going on. You can form your own views about which one of those is more likely, but you can’t know which is true. Unlike Milne, he was never charged with, or found guilty of anything. I’ve never met him, or heard his testimony (or even heard him speak about it), so I feel uncomfortable ruling a line through him as a person; albeit not as uncomfortable as tacitly supporting someone who may have been involved in sexual misconduct. It’s messy.

But at least some of the people responsible for hiring him do know him as a person, so I understand why they might be more inclined to consider him either innocent or someone who has learned from his mistakes. That’s a very human thing.

So although from where I sit I consider it is a bad appointment by Freo, and certainly not one I would have made personally, I guess I lack the moral certainly of others. I can only think back to how I felt when we recruited Shane Yarran. I thought it was great we were giving him a second chance but if memory serves the people he burgled had a different view. I think it would have been fair for them to be upset about that, but also fair for us to have drafted him.
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shane New coach 5 years 2 months ago #56

shane
I think a football club is a community organisation and when you make an appointment like that, to someone with that history, you have to take into account community expectations. There is a message that goes with it.

Football allowed those events to take place. Football allowed it to be covered up. Football people lined up to speak against the victim. At some point football has to stop looking after it's mates. Because the message is that everything is acceptable if you were good at footy.

Is it that hard to occasionally take the high ground and be a football club we can be proud of, instead of always being grubby.
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