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TOPIC: Difficult Dockers

Detox Difficult Dockers 5 years 6 months ago #15

Detox
I keep hearing the media say we missed out on Travis Cloke we missed out on Mitch Clarke.. we dodged a couple of massive bullets.. maybe we should just grab Lobb cheap and go the the draft
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Jooter said You Beaut

purple kit Difficult Dockers 5 years 6 months ago #16

purple kit
Our future 1st round pick isn’t mentioned because Gold Coast won’t trade it for May, they got burnt so badly last year trading multiple second rounders to secure WC 1st pick this year in the misguided belief it would get the Weller trade done. Now they have pick 19 this year and the eagles have their second round pick 22, they essentially gave away all those second rounders last year for nothing.
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shane Difficult Dockers 5 years 6 months ago #17

shane
Sometimes I wonder if you even believe in doing due diligence at all, hypen.
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hypen said You Beaut

Docker by the Sea Difficult Dockers 5 years 6 months ago #18

Docker by the Sea
Yes Melbourne would have been happy with our pick 6 and 23 however when we had 6 we didn’t have 23. We then traded 6 to get 23.
Once Brisbane are reasonable and give what Neale is worth pick 5 and 32 we are in fact well positioned to give Melbourne what they want. As Bell said we aren’t able to fulfil on what Melbourne want.
Essentially Melbourne’s starting position was give up Neale for pick 5 then give us your pick 6 and then take pick 81 into this years draft. The first draft I have seen so many clubs fighting to get into the top ten. Also forget any plans you may have had to work on deals that you were interested in.
No mention in the article of what offers Freo may or may not have offered previously. I would bet my lefty that we would have tabled two first round picks in future years.
Yeah Freo are being difficult.
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Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

Corporal Agarn Difficult Dockers 5 years 6 months ago #19

Corporal Agarn
www.afl.com.au/news/2018-10-13/comment-f...ursuit-isnt-over-yet

This is the important part for me. McDonald hasn't produced anything like this and to say he is better than Hogan is ridiculous. But if there are some stats or facts to prove he is I'm happy to read them.




At his best, Hogan is an elite power forward, something the Dockers have lacked since 700-goal club legend Matthew Pavlich's decline and retirement at the end of 2016.

Hogan booted 44 majors in a brilliant debut campaign, another 41 in 2016 and 47 in 20 games this year.

He also added another string to his bow in 2018, spending more time in the midfield and having a career-high 26 disposals against North Melbourne.

Despite personal trauma last season when his father Tony passed away from a long cancer battle and Hogan needed a testicular cancer tumour removed, he still kicked 20 goals in 10 games.

His track record shows a stark comparison to Freo's leading goalkickers from the past two seasons – with Michael Walters booting just 22 this year and Cam McCarthy returning only 25 in 2017.

Hogan averages 2.14 goals per game – not far off West Coast's gun spearhead Josh Kennedy (2.54) – and has returned seven bags of five goals or more in his 71-match career to date.

The 195cm and 100kg Claremont product is exactly what the Dockers need to boost their firepower after ranking bottom three for scoring in the past three years.
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Jango said You Beaut

Docker by the Sea Difficult Dockers 5 years 6 months ago #20

Docker by the Sea
Read the article CA even answered the quiz.
Should Fremantle prioritise keeping Neale or getting Hogan? I even answered getting Hogan. When given two options the answer was obvious. My real answer would have been prioritise appropriate compensation for Neale in order to get Hogan.
Bell when he expressed his want to keep Neale was simply doing exactly what Melbourne are doing with Hogan. If Fremantle can’t get the deal done we will keep him.
When he withdrew from chasing Hogan he was saying to the world we will not be forced into a weaker position with Brisbane just to get Hogan across the line.
The other way of looking at this is Fremantle a better side with Hogan without Neale and no additional talent coming to the club, possibly. Is Fremantle a better side with Hogan, Lobb and the addition of a couple of lower draft picks and no Neale. I would say yes.
What’s to stop us caving on the last day and giving up Neale for pick 5 only and giving Melbourne what they have now publicly requested.
So far I can’t understand all the criticism of our administrators.
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Alvin Prpl, goodie said You Beaut

Jango Difficult Dockers 5 years 6 months ago #21

Jango
I can just see Hogan kicking 60 to 70 goals next year for Melbourne and when he's out of contract the mob down the the road will get him.
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Tropical Difficult Dockers 5 years 6 months ago #22

Tropical
You're only ever trading for future games. So how many elite games are we likely to get from Hogan? I reckon 100 (max 150) given injury history etc. - that's roughly 5 full seasons taking him to age 29. He might have some serviceable years after that but nothing worth banking on.

What about pick 5? How many elite games will we get from that pick? It's riskier, but the upside is 200 with 50 or so serviceable games to come up to AFL speed.

Which would you prefer?

My two cents is that Hogan isn't worth pick 5 or 6. By pick 11, I'd rather have the known commodity for a shorter time. That's a deal I'd other Melbourne if I were Bell - not because it's 'fair' or so I 'win' but because it's what I'm willing to pay before the opportunity cost becomes to high.

The connected fact is that I don't think Neale is worth pick 5 either. He's only got 100 elite games left in him too (maybe fewer) and I'd rather take the kid high in the draft.

But, one more wrinkle. If we hold Neale and lose him to free agency, then we're likely to get a similar draft pick as compensation to what we'd get this year! So why not get 20 elite games for free, then a high compo pick next year?
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hypen Difficult Dockers 5 years 6 months ago #23

hypen
Look at the end of the day we could have walked from this trade period with pick 5 in the draft and Hogan. But losing Neale. That would have been easy to do.

Brisbane will give something extra for Neale it's not another 1st rd pick that's stupid. Melbourne will take 6 and what ever Brisbane give for Hogan.

The deal could have been done on day 1. The other precious or scarce resource in trade week is time.
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Docker 26 Difficult Dockers 5 years 6 months ago #24

Docker 26
We were screwed from the start of this trade period with only Picks 6 and 81.
Something had to give if we wanted some 2nd and 3rd round picks.
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sqizzy Difficult Dockers 5 years 6 months ago #25

sqizzy
Difficult Dockers my arse .... jeez there are some clowns around .Eastern states docker bashing at it’s best as it is obvious that the four parties involved are trying to get the best deal possible. There are still bloody 5 days for wheeling and dealing . Hogan is not a get at all costs messiah ,neither is Neale or Lobb . Deals will be done then the bitching on who has won or lost will really kick into gear
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expat, Raglan Matt, Suker said You Beaut

KingKepler Difficult Dockers 5 years 6 months ago #26

KingKepler
It’s not just about total games potential draftees can play in the future.

It’s about assembling a team that can have a crack at winning the big one and you don’t necessarily need to draft a player that will play 200 games plus for that to happen.

The hawks drafted mature guys in for 1-2 seasons and won flags as a result. They identified what they needed to make their best 22 competitive enough and then went out and got it.

I would be happy if we got Hogan on a 5 year contract and he only ended up playing 50 games in total if the end result was a flag. This would be better to me than getting a solid midfielder instead that plays 250 games and we hover around the the bottom half of the eight or out of finals contention for the next 10 years.
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Jango, Joe Nobody, Corporal Agarn, Burton said You Beaut

Tropical Difficult Dockers 5 years 6 months ago #27

Tropical
But how much did the Hawks pay for those 1 year rental pieces? Not 2x first round picks. Not even 1.
Those final puzzle pieces are needed but early first round picks need to be franchise players like Pav or Brayshaw/Cerra.
Mortgaging the farm for 50 games from a high profile player is how you end up like Carlton.
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Jason said You Beaut

Morgan Difficult Dockers 5 years 6 months ago #28

Morgan
Hypen, I agree keeping either pick 5 or 6 and turning Neale into Hogan would have been a good result. If what Brisbane was offering for Neale matched perfectly with what Melbourne was asking for Hogan then it's easy enough. But if one of the three parties has a different view then the deal falls over. The assumption by the media - no doubt fed by Melbourne - is that is Freo is being difficult, but given we know Melbourne wants more than pick 5 or 6, and Brisbane hasn't offered more than that for Neale, then it was impossible for Freo to make that deal and still keep their other early pick.

GWS is in the middle of a fire sale, Port was willing to pay an inflated price (based on draft points) for pick 6. It's possible Freo decided it could get good value from that pick swap, use one of those picks to get Lobb at a discounted price (more value), and revisit the Melbourne thing later in the period when Brisbane and Melbourne were being more reasonable.

The narrative is that Freo should pay whatever it takes to get Hogan because we've always wanted a forward. Well, a combination of Tabs, Lobb and Cox, with Walters and Rakine looks like a pretty handy forward line to me. If you just look at next season without looking through the prism of Bloody Travis Cloke, then I don't think we are as desperate as we have been in the past.

I love Hogan, and I really hope we get a deal done. But I've seen nothing to suggest that our inability to do the most complex deal of the period with three days to go is Freo's fault.
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Alvin Prpl, goodie, DJKL, sqizzy, Raglan Matt, teasea said You Beaut
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