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TOPIC: Why Disgruntled

DS Why Disgruntled 5 years 8 months ago #29

DS
Roly saying we are aiming for a premiership by 2020 is way different to him promising one, as was stated.
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The_Yeti Why Disgruntled 5 years 8 months ago #30

The_Yeti
DS,

his words, not mine, were:

"Particularly by the end of this tenure, I'll have no excuse to not have achieved that because we're fully resourced, fully supported and I've certainly got a timeframe where I can make short-term and long-term decisions to get us where we want to be."

When you over-promise and under-deliver, you cannot complain when you're held accountable.

Roly didn't say he was aiming at a premiership. He stated there would be no excuse not to have achieved one by 2020. You don't get to rewrite things things afterwards. You reap what you sow.
Egurls Suck!
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R.Lyon Why Disgruntled 5 years 8 months ago #31

R.Lyon
Next season if we can get our best players on the park most weeks things could turn around quickly. 2019 is make or break for me I need to see improvement
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Jezza Why Disgruntled 5 years 8 months ago #32

Jezza
So then, he’s got 2 seasons to do it. I say let’s see if he can pull a rabbit out of his cobblers.
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DS Why Disgruntled 5 years 8 months ago #33

DS
Yeti, I guess we disagree on the definition of the word promise. Roly said he will have no excuse and he’s right. But I don’t see that is a promise. A previous post said he promised a premiership and that is what I was questioning. Your quote is not a promise, more a statement of fact.
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The_Yeti Why Disgruntled 5 years 8 months ago #34

The_Yeti
DS,

yes we will have to disagree. When you make a statement like 'no excuse', I take it to mean 'no excuse' not 'I didn't mean it'.

When you get paid 1.2 million per year and get a contract extension by saying 'no excuse not to achieve it' then I have to ask why he shouldn't be held accountable for not achieving what he said he would achieve.

You'll also note, I don't let weasel words after the event slide through without challenge. He said 'no excuse' and I say let's hold him to his own words and not accept any more excuses.
Egurls Suck!
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Raglan Matt Why Disgruntled 5 years 8 months ago #35

Raglan Matt
Using our injury list as an excuse was not acceptable to the Lyon supporters when Harves got the boot, but now, when it suits the agenda it is.

What scares some of us is that it is very likely even when we get our full list on the park, we still will not kick enough goals to beat any better than a bottom 4 side. That will not lead to sustained success. Until we utilise the talents we have, like Buckley is doing at the Pies, Longmire at Sydney, Scott at Geelong and Hardwick at Richmond, not to mention Clarkson, who has not got some sort of super-team, we will be swimming with the flounders.
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The_Yeti Why Disgruntled 5 years 8 months ago #36

The_Yeti
I should add that in my opinion, spending 3 consecutive years in the bottom 6 isn't my idea of sustained success.

You just can't spin that in any way other than another broken promise
Egurls Suck!
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mac Why Disgruntled 5 years 8 months ago #37

mac
You support your team through the hard times.
I feel now in Western Australia its all about "Keeping Up Appearances"
Subi went fifty years 1924 to 1973 without a premiership but I used to go into a packed Subiaco members before that drought was broken.
Go the Cardies!
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Jason Why Disgruntled 5 years 8 months ago #38

Jason
Firstly, Happy Father’s Day DLers!! Hope you dad’s all had as good a day as mine - except maybe minus the surly teenage daughter!

Clearly I was watching different games of footy this year to some of you.

Our problem was not our forward structure/s or game plan, our problem was the inability to hit targets midfield and inside 50’s. I lost count of the number of times we would be running in numbers either through the middle or on the wings, only for the ball carrier to mistime their release and/or butcher the disposal. That then caught all our blokes out of position and a score against would often be the result.

It comes down to skill - not game plan. When we hit our targets this year (sadly, almost exclusively at home) we dominated sides with far higher credentials in terms of player ages and games played. Think Bulldogs, Essendon (home) and both Adelaide’s. Had Walter’s played the whole first Derby we would have won that too.

For a young team that isn’t blessed with elite speed across all lines (certainly not in available players this year with both Hills missing big chunks of the season) we made these teams look slow, yet rushed at the same time.

The game plan HAS changed from circa 2015 - executing it properly and often enough has been the issue.

We all agree that serious work needs to go into the skills side of things - the club as a whole has acknowledged such (by ‘whole’ I mean players, coach & admin) and I expect that will happen during the pre-season. One way to help that along is only bring in players with elite skills- especially kicking.

The tackles will stick once it is men tackling men - not boys tackling men as it is now. I’m less concerned with tackles missed than the lack of tackling to start with. The intent is there, they just need the bodies to mature enough to match the ambitions with their abilities.

Just because I agree with and support the current direction of the club does not mean I accept ‘whatever Lyon say’s’ or that I hold Lyon as some coaching messiah. That’s like saying the ABR faction don’t just want to sack Roly but they have come to a consensus on a properly qualified and experienced coach to take ove........ oh, right...

anyway...

My point is, if you’re really unhappy with the current state of affairs and you’re a paid up member you have the right to raise your concerns with the club at it’s AGM or whenever else you want to fire off an email. Or you can let your wallet do the talking and cease being a paid up member.

Or if you really want a fundamental change in direction, put a ticket together and contest for a Board position.

Or you can continue to whinge on public forums.

We’re at record membership levels despite 3 pretty ordinary seasons in a row. That says something to me about what the majority of supporters also think about our direction and labelling these 55,000+ people as Lyon/Rosich/Bond sycophants is patently ridiculous.

More important to me than who’s coaching (because we have had more crap coaches than good ones) is the club sticking to a process and seeing it through. If we want to attract a quality coach to replace RL at some point in time, having stuck with a clear process, despite the trials, tribulations and shrill media and ‘fan’ noise that comes with a rebuild - that would give the candidate confidence that they, too, will be given a chance to implement their plan - despite some pain along the way.

We do not have an exodus of players - the exact opposite when you look at our last few trade periods. Unhappy teams with players who aren’t listening to/happy with their coach leave (Adelaide anyone??). Who of any consequence has left us (read, not delisted) in the past 7 years that wasn’t a ‘go home’ factor?

There are those out there who have already marked Lyon’s card - no matter what happens from here - and you seem to see it as your civic duty to tell everyone your opinion - over and over and over.

Luckily for the club, not many of you hold memberships or attend games regularly. That’s fine, but if you think standing outside the tent and lobbing hand grenades in is the way to change things - well, that’s like an extreme minor party supporter who’s more interested in the protesting than the solution. Either way it’s the same outcome - no-one who matters is listening.
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cletus Why Disgruntled 5 years 8 months ago #39

cletus
Jason.....streuth!! There was no one in the forward 50 for most of the year for anyone to kick to....or as I'd rather put it....mis-kick to. !

Thats exactly what all us whingers are on about. !! Its a stupid,no hope, failed gameplan...and any 'progressive',forward thinking coach worthy of the name would be trying to do something different.

And...for all those that will counter that 'everyone now plays that way' ....the way to beat the rest of your competition, is perhaps do things a bit differently to the rest.

That is a completely different concept as "doing as everyone else is doing, but doing it poorly."
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Raglan Matt Why Disgruntled 5 years 8 months ago #40

Raglan Matt
Jason, I am a member.

The reason you rate Walters as the difference between winning and losing for us is because he is the only player in our team, and one of the few in the entire competition who can nail a pass to a player 40mt or away, who is leading away from him. The reason we turn the ball over so often going forward is we are too often forced to kick at such targets. This IS a tactical problem not a player driven problem, and the coaching staff(not just Lyon, I agree) have shown no willingness to change tactics on a game wide and season wide basis.

As for 55,000 members all agreeing with the direction of the club, you are in laalaa land if you believe that to be the case. The increase in membership is due to the availability of seats making membership an option for more supporters.
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FDB Why Disgruntled 5 years 8 months ago #41

FDB
I was facetiming with my mum yesterday - a 12-year member - and she said she's not going to renew in 2019, despite having a seat with an excellent view among friends.

Her reasons were those common around here. The club doesn't seem to care about the fans, it's all razzle dazzle and smoke and mirrors, and no accountability for actual results. If they just fronted up and admitted they were a bit crap and didn't really know what to do about it, she'd have stuck around.

Now she'll just put on her old purple, green, red and white scarf and sit in front of the telly in Shenton Park.

It made me sad.
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Bizkit Why Disgruntled 5 years 8 months ago #42

Bizkit
You put so much effort into that post Jimb2, I figure someone should have a go at addressing your points.

I) There was no market for RL at that point, he was signed before his contract was up and at far above any potential market rate. To be paid more than many other premiership winning coaches is ludicrous, especially with the direction of the club at the time.

II) As mentioned by others, RL and the club repeatedly used the words 'sustained success' to justify many problems. That it didn't eventuate and is incredibly unlikely to any time soon, they should be held to account. Refer to other posters for talk of a premiership by 2020.

III) "No excuses" was very clearly used when we were successful as a catch cry by RL and co at press conferences. Now all he does is cite the age, experience, turnover of players, injuries and any number of other excuses at will. You can't spend years saying we are a no excuse football club then go to town on excuses when you're losing without being a hypocrite and people calling you out.

IV) There were other good options provided to stay in Fremantle and the administration took us away from the clubs home (in pretty poor circumstances too) without consultation and against the wishes of most supporters (certainly invested supporters).

V) Other clubs doing something does not make it right and that most clubs backflip and change back to their original jumper or only slightly edit a jumper are pretty damning on the decision to completely overhaul the way we look, get rid of colours, get rid of the anchor, throw on some V's and change the shading of the one remaining colour. Again, no consultation leaves a very sour taste in most fans mouth. A marketing ploy that distances hardcore fans is a horrible move.

VI) Every club has injuries but few as consistent and repetitive as at Freo. There's a few issues going on here and the big one for me is our rehab efforts which are far below par. Recurrence rates are through the roof and not acceptable.

VII) I mention recruiting quite a bit so you can probably refer to about 75% of my posts for my ideas there!

VIII) We had an incredibly talented team when RL took over and he still played dirty to win. Winning shouldn't be the priority at this stage of a rebuild with attacking and exciting play the best way to aid the kids development. You can always teach defensive tactics later when players are more confident in their skills and abilities (and wiser) but attacking flair is not an easy thing to release. Letting the kids learn the boundaries of their abilities and encouraging them to take the game on should be the priority and the current game plan doesn't do that amongst other flaws.

It also helps supporters who are enduring another rebuild and lack of success stay engaged in the games and actually show up if we try to play attacking and explosive footy. Dour boring rubbish is only going to alienate fans and players.

IX) RL is paid the most in the AFL as coach to front the media, it's part of his job description. It's his job to sell the club and the way it's travelling and he is failing. Acting smug in press conferences and like a petty child with reporters doesn't help anyone and places a target on his back. It's hardly endearing for fans.

X) There are plenty of good coaches around who could have an impact as an assistant (or potential head coach)although I don't think we've had any jump at the chance to come work with RL. In fact we've really struggled to attract anyone to the club since he took over with only his old mates who had been out of the system for ages and ex AFL players who are trying to get into the industry the only applicants interested. JLo who is my personal favourite for a role in the Freo coaches box, would be a good addition but there are plenty around if we hadn't stupidly thrown our entire cheque book at RL, blowing our cap.

XI) Those cheap tickets you suggest people jump off the bandwagon and begin purchasing are the reason our membership figures get artificially boosted. Easy to pick up 3 game memberships and other rubbish memberships to include in our overall figure.

XII) Reviews are useless if completed with bias. Self review can be a useful tool to provide others with a guide of where you believe you are at but it only works in conjunction with independent review. Having Freo management review Freo management without any external review is just dumb and enables them to continue to do whatever they wish without repercussion.

Summary/Tldr: No one who supports Freo feels they are entitled to success, we have had very little. What we do want is the best attempt at success and these points show scant regard for it. It's more self preservation at this point which is not in our best interest as a club. No one feels better when discussing the problems at the club or the exploration of that in these forums. What we want is solutions and I see very few with those currently in charge, just more pain as we continue down the same path.
Nathan: When did you get balls?
Simon: I've always had balls you've just never seen them.
Nathan: That's the gayest thing I've ever heard.
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