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TOPIC: He makes some good points

The_Yeti He makes some good points 5 years 8 months ago #29

The_Yeti
Well I guess if you don't like the message, just shoot the messenger.

I don't think Cornes is confused, Morgan or maybe you are. Cornes is questioning how we are going about the rebuild. Thats fair enough. He's listed several points about resigning under performing players and thats fair enough to question that.

Perhaps if Roly had been able to provide answers it would have been clearer. For whats its worth, I think the only reason Ballas got another year is lack of draft picks to replace him. Sandi I'd keep for a mentoring role but Ballas wouldn't fit that category.

I think the next thing to consider is the direction of our rebuild. There doesn't appear to be one other than to replace as many players as possible and then point to that as the excuse for repeated failures.

There have been little off field changes to support the rebuild. No replacement of under performing ass coaches. No aim at acquiring better skilled players or developing better skilled player with what we have. All we get is 'we bring great effort'.

Cornes isn't the only one questioning the conduct of this rebuild. Its been questioned in the Roly's press conferences where no straight answer ever get given. Its been questioned by other commentators and journalists including Duffield again today.

There is nothing 'confused' about the questions being raised. The lack of good answers doesn't mean the questioners are confused.
Egurls Suck!
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DazzElle, freo00 said You Beaut

Jezza He makes some good points 5 years 8 months ago #30

Jezza
Yeti, I watched SOS on footy classified after Freo gave Carlton a touch up. The line of questioning was similar to what I’m hearing about Freo in the press. If you listened to the Vics, the Blues are tracking nicely with a clear pathway. And Bolton is the way of the future. The man haven’t played 1 AFL game and hows that tracking now. There’ll be Roly bashers and I think that’s fair enough. But if the solution was getting rid of the coach, then Richmond wouldn’t be where they are currently. I’ll help pack Roly’s bag, if by 2020 we’re still treading water.
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The_Yeti He makes some good points 5 years 8 months ago #31

The_Yeti
I think I'm yet to see anybody touting Carlton as 'tracking nicely', Jezza. BBasket case is the term normally used.

But how about you respond to repeated questions from FDB instead of pretending you don't see it.
Egurls Suck!
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freo00 said You Beaut

Morgan He makes some good points 5 years 8 months ago #32

Morgan
The messenger is Kane Cornes. I know he was up against it in life having been named Kane and being born into that head, but if there’s a messenger that deserves (metaphorical) shooting it’s him. It’s not normally needed, as he tends to inflict most of his damage when he opens in mouth.

Cornes’ point, as much as I can decipher it from the article, is that it can’t be a rebuild if you sign two admirable veterans on a one-year deal, and take another chance at an injury prone 25 year old. It’s a false dichotomy. You have painstakingly set out in enormous detail what you consider Lyon and others at Freo have done wrong. A lot of the time I disagree, but is it too much to ask a paid analyst like Cornes to turn his mind to that task?

Cornes put out a lazy, meaningless opinion based on a false assumption, that offered no substance to what Freo should and shouldn't be doing, and people are jumping onto it like it is the wisdom of Solomon. There’s nothing in it, just a buffoon flapping his gums on the Sunday Morning Baffoonapalooza. It truly saddens me that Freo has fallen so low that people will line up behind Kane Cornes in lazily bashing the club.

But Yeti, just so we’re clear, do you think all of Ballas, Sandi and Bennell should all be cut by Freo, or just some of them?
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rogerrocks, Flag_2005, Jason, Noddy, Rhufus said You Beaut

shane He makes some good points 5 years 8 months ago #33

shane
You like to take snapshots of moments and argue they made the best decision of the options present to them but Mundy, Balantyne and Sandilands should have been replaced by now.

Then again, Pavlich should have been replaced a couple of years before he retired and they still haven't gotten around to that.
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The_Yeti, gfc, Derby12, freo00, Burton said You Beaut

Flag_2005 He makes some good points 5 years 8 months ago #34

Flag_2005
Yeti you keep saying Freo are signing players up who, by inference, shouldn’t be re-signed because we don’t have enough draft picks in the draft. I don’t understand that to be the case - you go to the draft with however many vacancies you have on your main list. If it means you are picking blokes at pick 176 then so be it.
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Jason He makes some good points 5 years 8 months ago #35

Jason
So basically we should just listen to media hacks & and vocal, disgruntled fans as the way to fix footy clubs??

That would mean Buckley and Hardwick (you could prob add in Brad Scott too) would all be out of the senior coaching gigs at their respective clubs if the chorus of discontent from some fans and the media were enacted during various difficult periods in their recent history.

I’ll say it again, what a great diversionary tactic by Cornes to draw attention away from the perennial ‘contenders’ Port - who have topped up with older players then missed the finals altogether. They have played finals ONCE in the past 4 seasons and lost that final at home to Weak Coast. We’ve won the minor premiership and finals in that time - just sayin’.

If we’re going to talk about underperforming teams from the past 4 seasons -then let’s start with them.

At least our club committed to a long-term rebuild, drafted accordingly and only brought in free agents/trades that matched this strategy in terms of age profile. All recent trade in’s (since 2015) have been under 23 - with the exception being Matera who was 25.

This strategy has been backed by the Board and administration, clearly articulated to members and, like it or not, the path we are on whether we change coaches mid-stream or not.

Those in the ABR faction, maybe out of frustration for not having a consensus replacement despite umpteen threads discussing just that matter, make the assumption that those not calling for Roly’s head must “love” him. I do not and I know from my chats with Morgan that he is no Lyon-sycophant either. Haven’t had the pleasure to meet Jezza but I don’t believe he wants to have Roly’s love child either.

What I do have is respect for him as the only coach to lead us into consecutive final series (5) and our only Grand Final. He also has a body of work prior to his appointment here that rivals most AFL coaches - including a few Premiership ones - in terms of win/loss ratios. Players also seem to love him, for what that’s worth.

So when someone, either in the media or on here, comes up with a realistic and genuine alternative with the runs on the board and a proven ability to function in a two-team town where we are always the poor cousin - then I’ll listen. The silence so far has been deafening apart Ass Coaches who no-one else has rated enough to give a senior gig to - or sacked coaches working in the media.

And trying to compare us with Hawthorn is laughable.
We don’t get to play 10+ games a year on the ground the Premiership is decided, or only have to jump on a aeroplane for more than an hour once or twice a season.

Free agency has completely undermined nearly all the other equalisation measures the AFL have introduced and the Victorian teams are by far the biggest beneficiaries. The Hawks have been able to stay at the top by poaching the best players from other teams - something a WA side will never be able to do.

If we want to look at where our problems really lie it’s in the players we have drafted the past decade or so. Too many busts with early picks (some were unlucky with injury but not all), not enough local talent brought it and not enough highly skilled ball users. That would seem to be the domain of the recruitment and football department.

Now that our primarily Melbourne-based list manager is off to ‘manage’ someone else’s club - perhaps we should be throwing ridiculous sums of money at, say, Hawthorn’s list manager??

Because at the end of the day, a coach can only work with the players at his disposal and if they’re not up to AFL standard then you really are up the proverbial creek without a paddle.
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rogerrocks, Rhufus said You Beaut

guy smiley He makes some good points 5 years 8 months ago #36

guy smiley
You have to keep some guys on otherwise a bunch of hysterics online will abuse you for recruiting poorly.

Another way of asking the question about a so called rebuild would be to ask why you wait either 2 or 3 years, depending on your version of when it started, to play a bunch of rookies.
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Morgan He makes some good points 5 years 8 months ago #37

Morgan
I take your point shane, and it gets a bit circular, but if we had replaced four champions of the game with younger champions, we wouldn't be in a rebuild.

Where I tend to diverge from the masses on Dockerland is how difficult that challenge is when you don't have top 10 draft picks for 6 years.

If Cornes had said Freo shouldn't be in a position where signing Ballas, Sandi, Mundy and Bennell was a good idea, I'd say he'd have a reasonable point. Instead he just said, and I'm paraphrasing: "Freo sign old men....me confused."
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Jason, Rhufus said You Beaut

pollyanna He makes some good points 5 years 8 months ago #38

pollyanna
You live in this village and are part of a community. You notice that a whole family are dragged out at regular intervals, stripped bare-arsed and flogged mercilessly. This goes on repeatedly over a couple of years - eventually you ask the question 'how come?'. It's not a popular question, after all almost everyone else in the village are really entertained by the floggings - some, especially the wealthier members on the western edge of town, gleefully so. The odd thing about it all is that the head of the family answers that it's just a normal thing and that the floggings will build character into the family.

I don't get it, isn't it an obvious thing to question - why would you want to flog the bloke who actually asks it?
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The_Yeti said You Beaut

Drubbing He makes some good points 5 years 8 months ago #39

Drubbing
Rebuilds are for organisations that don't even realise how little forward planning they've done until they look up and see they are in a big hole. We have a draft and trade system that makes that tricky and inexact, but clubs have people paid to think about and do this stuff. Well, other clubs seem to.

Pavlich played on 2 seasons more than he should, because they never scouted for a replacement. You don't get another Pavlich, but you do try and fill the spot. We're re-signing the blokes we are simply because they haven't managed the list effectively.

And it all stems from Lyon forging ahead with his core group into 2016, instead of bringing younger ones in earlier.
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The_Yeti He makes some good points 5 years 8 months ago #40

The_Yeti
flag,

the argument against that is that blokes you draft at 176, you have to offer a 2 year contract. Blokes Like Ballas are getting a 1 year contract and can be replaced a year earlier. Its been explained before....several times.
Egurls Suck!
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Raglan Matt said You Beaut

Noddy He makes some good points 5 years 8 months ago #41

Noddy
Unless we beat the Pies or come close to doing so, the club will take a hit on memberships and that can’t happen

If Lyon’s in the barrel, I’d be giving Schofield a serious look. He seems to know how to get a group of players committed to a cause. People will re-sign or re-join just because there’s hope in the future.
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Raglan Matt, Catweazle said You Beaut

Derby12 He makes some good points 5 years 8 months ago #42

Derby12
Jason - we don't just take external voices like footy commentators as gospel - but when they are correct (no matter how infrequent that may be) there is no shame in looking at what they have said and accepting the criticism or trying to respond to the questions raised.

In this case, we have to look at our list and look long and hard at the decisions over the past 5-6 years that have got us here. And then look at how many of the decisions on re-signing seem to be based on the happenstance of whose contract has expired at that moment rather than who would actually be more valuable for the club over a given period. Ie kneejerk and unplanned options. I would put DeBoer out and Ballas retained in this category. Pearce's original re-signing was an example of this also.

Forget the actual positions and look at age, impact, leadership etc.

I am struggling to find many good or - objectively - considered decisions in recent times. Everything we have done since 2015 appears to demonstrate a lack of planning and a desperate over-reaction, with predictable consequences.

And I think another 2 years is too long to wait and watch the orchestrators of this mess attempt to find a way to salvage their jobs.
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Raglan Matt said You Beaut