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As bad as it's been

TOPIC: As bad as it's been

The_Yeti Ben Allan 5 years 9 months ago #71

The_Yeti
I certainly don't advocate our smalls leading to the pockets as the solution to our goal kicking woes. As far as I can remember I've been advocating the use of multiple talls in the forward line. In fact that was one of my earlier criticisms of Roly and the way he butchered Tabs development.

Rolyball requires two major things to function in my view:

i. excess players behind the ball, and
ii. a world class forward to make up for a deficient forward structure.

It kind of worked when he had a Pavlich or a Reiwoldt to do the heavy lifting but never good enough to win a flag. In the absence of a world class forward, you don't get to score much and it shows. I was a constant advocate for playing Tabs with Pavlich but in his first 50 games, Tabs got to play 1 game then got dropped for 3 or in his 1 game he got subbed out. Fantastic way to develop a player...not.

We still need to get past having extras behind the ball as our plan A, B and ... wait there is no plan B. Have more than one tall forward to split the taller defenders. Have the smalls in a crumbing role (Walters is perfect at this). Don't be too predictable...yes lead down the centre, lead into pockets, especially to draw away defenders but wherever you lead mask sure your face on to your mids and tell them to honour leads and not bomb it over their heads.

None of this is rocket science which makes it more aggravating that we don't do the basic stuff so well. I'm pretty sure Hale would know how to do this. I'd be amazed if he didn't. Clarkson knows how to do this, so does Simpson. When was the last time Roly beat either one of them? Yeah I don't remember that either.
Egurls Suck!
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Morgan Ben Allan 5 years 9 months ago #72

Morgan
CA, I initially had West Coast about 8th, but couldn't bring myself to leave them there - even at the expense of my argument. That's how much I hate West Coast. It's why Justin Longmuir can rot in turncoat hell.
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Corporal Agarn Ben Allan 5 years 9 months ago #73

Corporal Agarn
Shane, he does like a good overseas junket disguised as a learning tour of sporting teams and venues

These must have cost a bloody lot of moolah and have gained us sweet FA.
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mac As bad as it's been 5 years 9 months ago #74

mac
We only won two games in 2001. Only one at home and that was the last game. This season is just a scratch, Ive had worst in 2001.
This clip is a Ross Lyon post interview.
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Straddo As bad as it's been 5 years 9 months ago #75

Straddo
2001, now that was a bad year, we're world's away from 2001 level.

Externally commenting on coaches style/strategy/relationship is all a lot of speculation really. You only have to look at the most recent premiers to get an example of the hysteria that can surround a coach who isn't performing. Richmond only managed 8 wins in 2016 and after 6 years without winning a final and with a winning ratio of 47% Hardwick could easily have been let go, there were certainly enough people calling for his head. The management supported his direction and ultimately have reaped the rewards.

I recall watching the first few games last year and thinking that it could have been 2001 all over again, and later in the year you could see the guys playing without purpose, heads down, and not really functioning as a team. I haven't seen much evidence of that this year and so there's definitely been some improvement as a group. Time will tell if it can be sustained.
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Montrachet Ben Allan 5 years 9 months ago #76

Montrachet
Yeti, who are these tall forwards we should be playing? The ones that have been injured all year or the ones who have proven incompetent?

It wasn't because our structure or game style was wrong that we didn't win a flag, it was because our players choked in front of goal. All of them.

St Kilda should have won one too. Wasn't Roly's fault.
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Bizkit As bad as it's been 5 years 9 months ago #77

Bizkit
2001 was a bad year for wins but the people who went to the footy actually had a good time and enjoyed themselves. You went to the games without expectation of a win but a show, seeing players with freedom to attack the ball and the play. We had many scintillating passages of play that had the crowd on their feet and loving the footy.

It wasn't so much about the wins but the way we played with kids showing plenty of skill and courage like Pav, Hase and co. It wasn't hard to get behind the side with the way they went about things as they very clearly rebuilt.

The modern style under RL doesn't allow that. I don't care about wins this year (or last) as it's not the aim in a rebuild. I want to see the kids able to take on the game and play to their strengths, build confidence and show us why they were drafted. I want to see exciting play and blokes taking on their opposition. I want excitement.

Dour defensive footy as we've had the past 7yrs is boring even when we win. If we aren't even doing that, there's no incentive to show up and support the side. I don't buy this half hearted rebuild and I don't see it paying off with this style of footy. All the kids are learning is how to play in a specific system that has proven fruitless in the past and it will cost us our future.
Nathan: When did you get balls?
Simon: I've always had balls you've just never seen them.
Nathan: That's the gayest thing I've ever heard.
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shane As bad as it's been 5 years 9 months ago #78

shane
No one had a good time. It was an awful season. People cried.
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The_Yeti Ben Allan 5 years 9 months ago #79

The_Yeti
Montrachet,

you should read all my post not cherrypick bits out. I specifically talked about Roly only wanting to play one tall forward because his game plan requires extra blokes behind the ball. We could have and should have played Pav and Tabs together. We rarely did. Tabs development was slowed by the poor way he was developed.

We should be playing Tabs with another tall but again we don't because we can't do that and have extra blokes behind the ball. Tabs being injured dioesn't detract from that argument. He was played as the sole tall forward when he was fit and will be again when he returns in all likelihood.

As for St Kilda should have won a flag. You can't say that with any degree of certainty. It is equally arguable that they were lucky to get that draw as opposed to being unlucky to miss out. The following week they were thrashed.

What can't be argued is Roly's teams have been outscored in every grand final except one and that was a draw. He's won as many grand finals as I have...zero.
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Corporal Agarn Ben Allan 5 years 9 months ago #80

Corporal Agarn
Well even in that horrible anus of of a year we kicked totals of 80 pts or more on 11 occasions and a few over 100. We'd be lucky to do that now even if we stayed out there during half time while the other team had a break.
Our football at the moment is boring to watch, there is no escaping it. That's obviously compounded by the fact that we don't look like scoring the majority of times we go into attack.
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Morgan Ben Allan 5 years 9 months ago #81

Morgan
I think you might be conflating a few different bad seasons there Bizkit. 2001 sucked hard. We were terrible all year, it rained all the time, the beer was flatter than usual and a nationwide hotdog shortage meant everyone had to eat the Chicken Treat chicken rolls. It was a disaster.

And that's with a forward line of Modra, Pavlich, Longmuir and Clive!

This year has been bad, but more games than not at Optus have been entertaining, and that's with a forward line of Cox, Jones, Sutcliffe and Giro.

This is just a theory, but is it possible that, objectively, things aren't all that bad but long-term fans, because they care passionately and have been through this all before and are just nearly two decades older, are just grumpier than they were in 2001?
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Grub As bad as it's been 5 years 9 months ago #82

Grub
Some truth to that Morgan. I rent two seats (no I don’t take up a lot of room) and I think it works out at about $140 a game.
I want to be entertained. Wins are great but not the measure for me - that Port game was a joke. I looked at my young nephew a few times during last weeks debacle and he was as flat as a pancake as was I. From the first goal until the last there was no reason to get excited about the way we were playing.
I’ve invested over 18 years of seat money into this and will probably continue to do so but I’m a long way back when it comes to getting a return on my investment.
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guy smiley As bad as it's been 5 years 9 months ago #83

guy smiley
Of course it's been worse. Remember the two kids pictured in the paper holding up a sign saying 'please stop losing Fremantle'?

It is down to people being grumpy. You get that when someone comes along selling dreams and stealing hopes. Perth people do entitlement better than anywhere and getting a taste of the big time has only sharpened the whingeblades. Getting to a GF blinded some to the grind of ups and downs associated with sport but that isn't helped by the sales line that accompanied the radical change the club went through under the Steves. We were subjected to massive upheaval and now that that has spectacularly failed to deliver there seems to be an underlying resentment over it all. It doesn't help watching the neighbours apparently sail through a supposed rebuild and into the top 4 already when the expectation was we could enjoy seeing them flail for a year or two.

It's been a lot worse but being this bad smacks of a con job and people don't like being conned.
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Grub As bad as it's been 5 years 9 months ago #84

Grub
The ooftits doing so well certainly doesn’t help - getting your nose rubbed into it most days gets tiring.
The optimist in me thinks that these things can turn around pretty quickly and it’s not always a coaching change that is the catalyst.
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