Herkes tarafından bilinerek sevilen site olan 1xbet canlı adresi sizlere büyük avantajlar ile farklı bahis imkanları sunmaktadır. Bilindik bir firma olması nedeni ile her defasında yeni bir 1xbet güncel adrese taşınıyor. Paylaşılan adreslerden sizlere en uygun 1xbet türkiye giriş güncel adresine kolaylıkla hemen ulaşabilirsiniz. Sizlerde kolaylıkla her cihazınızda aktif olan 1xbet mobile ile bahis yaparak, üyelik oluşumunu halledebilirsiniz. Büyük promosyonlardan yararlanarak üyelik açmak için 1xbet live adresini kullana bilirsiniz. Üyelik oluşturduktan sonra kolaylıkla yatırım yapmak için mobil ödeme bahis kabul gördüğünü anlayabilirsiniz. Hiç bir yerde olmayan canlı bahis özelliklerini sizlerde hemen kullanın. Aktif bir şekilde işlem yapan canlı bahis sitesi editörler tarafından özenle araştırılarak seçilmiştir. Ülkemizde resmi yayın yapmayan sitelerin çoğu kaçak bahis adı altında görev yapmaktadır. İnternetten yayın yapan kaçak bahis siteleri kullanıcılarına yüksek oranlar sunan bir adrestir. Hemen sizlerde casino oyunun farkına ve eğlencesine varmak için kayıt oluşturun.

TOPIC: On balance

The_Yeti On balance 6 years 3 weeks ago #29

The_Yeti
Well then, Jezza, if the coach is responsible for so little and the game plan is the same as everybody else's game plan, I'll ask the same question that you and Morgan continue to refuse to answer:

Why do we even need him?

One minute you bang on about having the greatest coach and the next minute we have the same game plan as every other coach.

It seems to me you change your tune depending on what you try to avoid.

We do not have the same plan as everybody else and its crazy to think that people are going to swallow that
Egurls Suck!
Login to reply,
DazzElle, freo00 said You Beaut

Jezza On balance 6 years 3 weeks ago #30

Jezza
We almost cracked Hawthorn’s game plan in 2013. Five years down the track, everyone is on the Hawks bandwagon again, albeit with younger players. I like to put it this way. There are so many different versions of the song “Simply The Best”, by Tina Turner. But the lyrics are still the same. You just put your spin on it.
Login to reply,

shane On balance 6 years 3 weeks ago #31

shane
Google Music gave me three versions. Tina Turner, Jimmy Barnes and Tina Turner with Jimmy Barnes.
Login to reply,
Raglan Matt said You Beaut

Jezza On balance 6 years 3 weeks ago #32

Jezza
You haven’t heard my version.
Login to reply,
Alvin Prpl, Nodgey, DocDocker, rogerrocks, Stacksonthemill, R.Lyon said You Beaut

Morgan On balance 6 years 3 weeks ago #33

Morgan
Coaches do heaps of things, but an AFL team is a complex system comprised of players with human agency. Until headsets are allowed, players will continue to put themselves in the wrong position sometimes. Remember NicNat training with an iPhone strapped to his back blaring instructions at training about where to be? He had Dean Cox to learn from, who would get twice the possessions off half of the natural talent because he knew where to get cheap kicks, and do you think NicNat learnt a bloody thing? A decade later and he still runs around like a chook with his head cut off.

From Lyon’s press conference after the game: “If you go to spots where you can’t hurt them, they will release you into the congestion. It’s hard when you are a young forward, you want to get the ball, you get a bit desperate.”

Most teams adjust their positioning on the fly depending on the game situation. The best teams impose their will on the other team, and make better decisions when required. The bad teams are forced into difficult decisions, then make the wrongs ones. Against good teams, I reckon we tend towards that.

Now, maybe you think Tabs and McCarthy are footballing Rhodes Scholars, but Tabs looks to me someone who has little awareness of what’s happening in real-time, and CamMac strikes me as someone who runs about on gut feel. I reckon organising those two bozzos, as well as a new player in Matera and Ballas is a work in progress, which is to be expected given how little they have played together. I think some of that is reflected in Lyon’s acknowledgement that the game plan was a little too complicated.

Or, Lyon for some reason tells his team to have no-one forward against good teams, then lies about it at a press conference. It’s entirely possible.

But again, this is one aspect of Freo’s play. Freo are really cracking in, as they have always done under Lyon. The defenders are playing with flair in the backline and running in support through the middle. The kids are showing glimpses. Old stagers like Sandi, Mundy and Johnno are in their swansong and performing admirably. A Pearce is having a comeback season for the ages. Fyfe is back to his imperious best. Walters is playing his way into form and is ready to take a game apart. The new stadium is actually pretty good, and we don’t have to drink Carlton Mid anymore.

But all anyone wants to talk about is that we muff up our forward positioning slightly more than most teams, who almost to a team have better forwards and more options going into attack.

It’s incredibly myopic. There are plenty of positives. You might enjoy the game more if you focus on those for a little while.
Login to reply,
goodie, Jason, Jezza, snoop said You Beaut

The_Yeti On balance 6 years 3 weeks ago #34

The_Yeti
I can only say that maybe you should actually read my posts before rushing off a long wind diatribe to disagree.

Its very confusing when you hear that we have an amazing coach who apparently isn't responsible for the moves made in a game. The same guy who has had a very rigid game plan for years and been praised for apparently getting our blokes to follow his instructions. This was supposed to be why he was so much better than Harvey.

I will put this to you in the light of his comments about young blokes chasing the ball. Since you claim he wasn't responsible for putting the forwards behind the ball when he has admitted doing just that on previous occasions and since those changes occurred in second quarter when GWS stepped up their game and got on top, why did he not address those young blokes 'chasing the ball' at half time? Or 3/4 time? Or at any time during at least a whole half of football?

Is it not just possible that he's making the mistake that everybody else seems to see and wants eliminated?

Is it even remotely possible?

Frankly I don't give a rats who the coach is. I just want to see a flawed approach get changed like so many others. You will notice if you actually read my posts I have not just called for him to go. I've called for him to change and if he won't change then then we should get somebody who can get the best from our players.

Yes the game against Essendon was good. So was the game against GCS. They could have and should have been better and I've said where they should have been better but the game against Port and GWS, we simply stopped trying to win and tried not to lose. Pretending that Roly doesn't put the players where he decides is lunacy.
Egurls Suck!
Login to reply,
Jezza, DazzElle, teasea said You Beaut

Morgan On balance 6 years 3 weeks ago #35

Morgan
I've never said he's a great coach. In fact in the last week or so alone I've said I'd trade him for a bunch of other coaches, and that he wouldn't have been my choice for someone to oversee the rebuild. I'm more than capable of saying he has flaws and have done so on many occasions. My guess is that he's probably too rigid and too defensive at times. I see some evidence that he's probably changed a bit on that front.

But I think he cops too much blame on here for things that go badly on the field, and think players influence what happens on the field more than coaches. And I think the focus on Lyon obscures the good things that have happened on the field this.
And yes, it's entirely possible Lyon is the root of all of our attacking woes. I just think it's less likely than you.

It's actually a very moderate position. I'm not sure why it's controversial.
Login to reply,
goodie said You Beaut

The_Yeti On balance 6 years 3 weeks ago #36

The_Yeti
Well I have to say that I cannot see your position as moderate in all honesty.

Suggesting that the players are responsible for following the ball when there was a complete absence of action from the coach's box to address that is flying in the face of reality. Yes, I know what he said but he's not being upfront there.

Also, unlike some, I am aware that the coach has a huge impact on how the team plays. The coach has more impact than any individual player because he is the one that decides who gets to play to their best.

My comments are based on what we have seen for his entire tenure. His focus is defensive. It always has been and its too focused on defence. More balance is needed in today's game.
Egurls Suck!
Login to reply,
freo00 said You Beaut

KingKepler On balance 6 years 3 weeks ago #37

KingKepler
I actually think Lyons game plan and our playing style was very effective in 2013 and parts of 2014 and 2015.

We had the cattle for it then and all our players were in the right age bracket. We had bigger midfielders that included Barlow and Crowley. Mzungu, Suban and Deboer all fitted the mould nicely. We also importantly had a focal point in attack in Pav and players like Johnson and Sandilands were more mobile.

It was clear in 2014 and 2015 this style of play was taking its toll though and the better sides had figured us out. Hawthorn never had to figure us out.

It was really good coaching in 2013 and suited our strengths and the players understood and were committed to it. It nearly snared us a flag.

However with the list we have at the moment and a number of youngsters playing it is just plain dumb to revert to 2013-2015 style footy. Lyon seems to push this button at certain times when the opposition kicks a few consecutive goals on us. Maybe it is a result of us copping some big loses last season and Lyon wants to stop that from happening again.

We cannot play this style effectively anymore as we did before with the players we have. It certainly doesn’t stop the opposition from scoring as shown by Port Adelaide and GWS. So why do it?

If anyone can enlighten with actual reasons supporting this coaching method and style of play given the list we have it would be most appreciated to put my mind at ease. Because all I am at the moment is frustrated and annoyed that our team is playing a way which doesn’t suit them at all.
Login to reply,
freo00 said You Beaut

Raglan Matt On balance 6 years 3 weeks ago #38

Raglan Matt
I see that same shite about players behind the Ball etc etc, dysfunction forward line etc etc and atrocious skills etc etc only when teams are losing

One reason why you see all that "shite" when we are losing Jezza, is because it is THE REASON why we are losing.
i) players behind the Ball We go pretty good when we have players playing to position, it turns to "Shite" when the game plan reverts.

ii) dysfunction forward line The forward line is not disfunction (al) when we play players in the forward line, and I guess it is right to say the forward line is not "disfunctioning" if we don't have anyone in the forward line.

iii) atrocious skills I think most of Dockerland agrees most of our players are pretty highly skilled at the moment. Where we diverge is the reason why kicks are not hitting targets and goals are not being scored, and the camp that has diverged from your view is the one that says kicks are not hitting targets, because RoLy (or the players themselves) have shifted all the targets to the backline (ie behind the kicker) (which is not very fair on the kicker) and the players are to buggered from training and playing for doing 150 meter sprints every few minutes.

Just to use Brad Hill as an example, he is a 3 times premiership player, and played pretty well in all those finals. Now you can argue that some players get lucky to get one premiership medal they don't really deserve. Some get really lucky and get a couple they don't really deserve. I don't know of any that got really really really lucky and got 3 they didn't really deserve. So why is he not the same player now?
Login to reply,
The_Yeti, DazzElle, freo00 said You Beaut

Morgan On balance 6 years 3 weeks ago #39

Morgan
I don’t understand the B Hill point. He never cracked the top 10 in a B&F for Hawthorn, but won the Doig in his first season at Freo. So either Hawthorn has much better players, out coaching staff rated him much more highly, or he improved for Freo.
Login to reply,
OK chief, R.Lyon said You Beaut

Raglan Matt On balance 6 years 3 weeks ago #40

Raglan Matt
He cracked the F & B in a pretty average year for Freo, when a lot of good players were out for big parts of the season, AND has been the target of a lot of negative comment about his skills over the last year and a little bit. My point is that he played in 3 premiership teams, and not all the Hawks players managed that. So yes Hawthorn did have some pretty handy players, at least 10 obviously, but B Hill must have been more highly rated for his skills at Hawthorn ( A team and coaching panel who rate skill execution a bit above effort and 150 meter sprinting ability) than here on D/L, so why have his skills dropped away?

Did you get the rest of it Morgan?
Login to reply,

KingKepler On balance 6 years 3 weeks ago #41

KingKepler
Richmond won the flag last year FFS.

The bulldogs won the flag the year before FFS.

The mob up the road made a GF the year before FFS but were pummelled by the hawks.

Hawthorn won three in a row.

The cats were a dominant team and won three flags.

None of these teams play a similar style to that coached by Lyon.

The one team that does have some similarities to a Lyon coaches team is Sydney and they have been flogged in two grand finals even with a bloke called buddy franklin.

Why do some feel this need to make excuses for Lyon? His methods didn’t work even with a seasoned side and are still not proving to work.

I was willing to give him a chance to oversee a rebuild but I now fear my original concerns are becoming a reality.

We have the talent to be better than the bulldogs of 2016, the tigers of 2017 and a long way better than the eagles of 2015. We are not bloody rebuilding.

The playing methods used are holding us back. Yes we will win against teams like Essendon and the Gold Coast at home this year playing somewhat attractive football.

But the evidence is indisputable when looking at the premiership teams of the last 10 years. Against skilled quick teams the teams Lyon coaches struggle against it don’t quite get the chocolates.

It is laughable that some keep preferring to stick their head in the sand and pretend otherwise.
Login to reply,
DocDocker, DazzElle, freo00, Burton said You Beaut

Docker by the Sea On balance 6 years 3 weeks ago #42

Docker by the Sea
This thread started out as somebody trying to set a different tone for the conversation around the football club we supposedly support, and once again has been diverted down the path of Ross’s game plan being the root of all evil. Quite frankly I have had enough of this conversation and find myself logging in less and less to read the same arguments regurgitated.
I personally don’t see comments to the effect of gee Ross Lyon is some sort of SuperCoach, I do see people offering a defence or other mitigating factors. Jezza may be over the top positive but he is over the top positive about all aspects of the club not just Lyon.
I have posted before clubs realise changing the coach is not a cure all for everything wrong on game day, Buckley, Richardson and Scott still have their jobs. Hardwick and Thompson kept their jobs against the cries for their heads and won premierships. Richmond a team famous for sacking coaches finally stuck with one and won a premiership, even the obvious best coach around at Hawthorn even came under pressure after delivering a premiership.
I am no expert and don’t get to many games unlike others on here, but when I do I notice there are a lot of times when the forward fifty is left entirely vacant by both teams.
When I looked at the fixture pre-season I had us at 1 & 3, we are 2 & 2. If I was to look forward two weeks I would fancy us against the Bulldogs and not against the Eagles, if we are 3 & 3 then that’s probably a little ahead of where most judges would have had us.
If you want to see how judges outside our supporter group rate our talent check out the various top fifty lists compiled we don’t really rate a mention, not one other captain had us making the eight. We are below average team trying to build to be above average this will be painfull at times and why are people surprised when our supposed “Game Plan” breaks down when we play teams that are better than us.
I am sorry if this post is a bit long winded and not as well put together as it should be, I intended to be brief and ended up down a rabbit hole. I am now promising myself not to engage in this conversation again until at least round 18, it is old.
Login to reply,
goodie, rogerrocks, finalport, Jezza, snoop, Noddy, mule, Freolifer, Stacksonthemill said You Beaut