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TOPIC: On balance

Walter the baker On balance 6 years 3 weeks ago #15

Walter the baker
Good question Yeti.
I guess I prefer to rate a team based on it's actual performance rather than theoretical future outcomes. Some of the posts that get put up here could be replaced by
1) if we had our best 22 playing and they were in form we'd be in the finals, or
2) if we win more games than other teams we will finish on top of the ladder.

Let's stick to a real world view. We're travelling ok, it's early days, we're still off the pace being set by the top teams but at least we aren't Carlton/SK/Brisbane!!
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rogerrocks On balance 6 years 3 weeks ago #16

rogerrocks
Its up to the crowd to get in the umpires heads. They've shown a weakness to go with crowd noise at the craypot so far.

Our players are good enough, we just need an even break with the umpiring.
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Jezza On balance 6 years 3 weeks ago #17

Jezza
Let’s go back to the preseason where we smacked them by 10 goals in the JLT. While they didn’t have NicNat and JK, we were missing Hilly and Neale. They’re April premiers and have been for a long time. They know we’re coming. Oops was that the Carlton mantra a few years back?
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Morgan On balance 6 years 3 weeks ago #18

Morgan
One of the reasons Lyon wasn’t my preferred choice to oversee the rebuild is that unlike a new coach he starts will no goodwill, nor would he be afforded patience from a lot of fans. From a fan’s perspective those things are important.

But if, let’s say, a Brendan Bolton-type was overseeing this season, I reckon fans would be cautiously optimistic. People would be rapt that he was playing the kids, excited about the ball movement from defence. They would still be frustrated by the forward line, but because they new coach seemed like a good bloke they would make peace with it by saying that was our weakest area for talent, and that it would take a couple of years to install a new system.

We’ve won the games we should have, and lost games away against the second and third favourites for the flag.

But we’ve got Lyon, so a lot of the fans won’t be able to enjoy the fun bit where a youngish team tries their guts out with mixed results.

It’s a shame really.
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goodie, timmeh said You Beaut

The_Yeti On balance 6 years 3 weeks ago #19

The_Yeti
Its more of a shame, Morgan, that the coach we have has a defensive mindset that he reverts to when he lacks confidence in the team.

We had fast ball movement, players ahead of the play etc against Essendon and GCS. We didn't against Port and GWS. If we want to progress then we need to do those things against the good sides.

Yes, we will likely lose but we will get something from that and we lost those games anyway.

Saying that a new coach would make people see things in a different light is simply saying we really shouldn't remember the current coach's history. How many chances do you think he gets before we are allowed to take his history into account.

Pretending he doesn't have that history is more than passing strange. I'd be expecting our club management to be taking that into account so why shouldn't the members and supporters?
Egurls Suck!
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Bizkit, Raglan Matt said You Beaut

Noddy On balance 6 years 3 weeks ago #20

Noddy
We were in the Gws game and our use of the pill on the day was poor in challenging conditions on a ground that only one side has beaten Gws.

There is a lot to like about how Lyon is approaching the game and the players we have.
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Jezza said You Beaut

pollyanna On balance 6 years 3 weeks ago #21

pollyanna
Against the Bummers we closed off their movement up the middle - we caused turnovers and forced them to the wings. We won.

Against Penrith we did the same in the first quarter and worried them. They changed up and got the corridor back, especially in the second half. Their speed of ball movement, by hand and foot caught us out.

Now whether the fix is with our defensive or offensive structures I don't know. What I do see is that the speed of run from one zone to the other is an important feature of 2018 footy. Staggered short kicks, overlapping run or good old fashioned precise long kicking are the way to go. The key is speed.
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The_Yeti, Noddy, OK chief said You Beaut

Raglan Matt On balance 6 years 3 weeks ago #22

Raglan Matt
Polly, the key always has been, and always will be, having someone in front of you, leading at you. Hill has all the speed in the world, but when he gets the footy, he runs his 20 or 30, then has to turn around and kick it back to where he came from.
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The_Yeti, DazzElle said You Beaut

Morgan On balance 6 years 3 weeks ago #23

Morgan
I’ll put to one side the idea that Lyon ‘reverts’ to a defensive mindset which causes us to lose. I’m of the view that this isn’t an instruction from the coach, but rather better teams wrest control from us, and like most other teams getting beaten we get too sucked into the congestion without enough players forward. Lyon has said as much in press conferences, including on the weekend. I take him on his word on that; but perhaps he’s lying, or at least isn’t doing enough to stop his players doing it. I don’t think we’ll ever agree on that – or know the truth of the matter without being in the coaching box ourselves.

I never expected fans – or players for that matter – to forget Lyon’s history. There’s some well-established psychological research about how resilient existing beliefs can be, how even new contradictory information actually serves to reinforce those beliefs. Lyon walked through the door as an opposition coach, an existing Freo coach was knifed in the back, we failed to win a premiership and we currently aren’t very good. Many supporters are going to have a pretty dim view of him, and nothing will ever change that. Starting with a clean slate can be important, which is why coaches who haven’t won a premiership rarely get two bites at it with one club. Freo HQ have deprived Freo fans the opportunity to have that clean slate.

But Cookie’s point was that at a high level there are some things to be positive about. I think that’s true.

We’re playing kids, who are playing with relative freedom. The young players are being allowed to make mistakes. Players are getting different roles to learn their craft (like Banfield moving into a ball-winning role on the weekend despite starring as a stopper). Players like Brayshaw are still getting games despite limited output (although I reckon he could use a spell). The players are zipping the ball all over the backline, and running through the middle. Our forwards like Tabs and CamMac have shown improvement in patches. The atmosphere was electric at the Essendon game, and I expect will be the same on the weekend.

Fair enough if you reckon Lyon is a dud, that’s certainly possible. But I reckon the focus on him takes away from a bunch of positive things happening. 2018 could be the next generation’s version of 2010, and I just reckon it would be a shame to miss the ride because you were focused on the coach. Admit it – aren’t you more excited to go to games this season than you have been for years? Why not embrace it?
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goodie, cookie, timmeh, Jezza, Noddy, OK chief, expat, Rhufus, Bleeds Purple said You Beaut

rogerrocks On balance 6 years 3 weeks ago #24

rogerrocks
And to beat the teams that run the ball really quickly you have to be frenetic like the Bullies were a couple of years ago. You have to put as much pressure on the ball carrier as you can, as well as anticipating where the ball is going next. We couldn't do that against GWS, basically because they are fast, skilful and well drilled.
We'll need to do it against the slime, because they get a lot of their goals from fast movements out of defence. Luckily they aren't as good as GWS.
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Noddy, Suker said You Beaut

The_Yeti On balance 6 years 3 weeks ago #25

The_Yeti
Well, Morgan, if you are of the view that the decision to put people behind the ball isn't one of the coach then who do you think actually gets to make that decision? Thats a fairly staggering comment right there. I would assume that the decision to play Tabs and Kersten behind the ball against Port Adelaide and eventually place them across the backline was entirely their own.

Given that, I'd also expect you to agree with replacing the coach with somebody who does actually make decisions on where players play and how.

Seriously? Its the coach's call, particularly for a coach that maintains an extremely high level of control.
Egurls Suck!
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DazzElle, Raglan Matt, KingKepler said You Beaut

Noddy On balance 6 years 3 weeks ago #26

Noddy
I know a guy whose looking for a bloke to break rocks day after day, nothing else, that's it. Some people do that stuff really well.
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Raglan Matt On balance 6 years 3 weeks ago #27

Raglan Matt
Morgan, we put too many players behind the ball against the good sides, when we get a couple of goals up, which stops our scoring, which allows them to wrest control back. If that is not a coaches game plan, then the coach should still carry the can for continually allowing the players to go away from the game plan when they are in a winning position.
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The_Yeti, DazzElle said You Beaut

Jezza On balance 6 years 3 weeks ago #28

Jezza
I’m with you Morgan, our 2 away games against 2 premiership favourites are lessons well learned. It’s difficult to win away especially against strong oppositions while playing 4 kids. I see that same shite about players behind the Ball etc etc, dysfunction forward line etc etc and atrocious skills etc etc only when teams are losing. Do you think for one minute all the 18 AFL coaches have game plans that are totally dissimilar. There are slight tweaks given the personnel at their disposal. I mean did you not watch what Melb dished out on the weekend . And I see the Hawks having similar game plans to many clubs that are currently on the losing end. I’m looking forward to our next run of wins and listening to why we’re still rubbish.
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