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Giants v Freo

TOPIC: Giants v Freo

Morgan Giants v Freo 6 years 3 weeks ago #141

Morgan
Not coaching skills in isolation and not considering them important isn't the same thing. I consider English language skills important at work, but I don't necessarily teach them. When have you been to training and not seen players with footballs in their hand?

I'm curious that you've taken Lyon's specific words to heart. How do you decide which words to repeat years after they have been spoken, and which words to do you decide to disregard immediately?
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Noddy said You Beaut

The_Yeti Giants v Freo 6 years 3 weeks ago #142

The_Yeti
Davo,

the low scoring efficiency is a concern. GWS had a 59% efficiency in the same very difficult conditions. We don't get level at home and in pristine playing conditions. Its just more evidence that Roly needs to change what he's doing to improve our scoring. What we have now is clearly not good enough
Egurls Suck!
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cletus, freo00 said You Beaut

The_Yeti Giants v Freo 6 years 3 weeks ago #143

The_Yeti
Having a football in hand is not training for skills. I'm surprised thats the best you have.

As for judging what is true ands what isn't, perhaps just watching years of the same errors being made might lend some credence to those words
Egurls Suck!
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cletus, freo00 said You Beaut

cletus Giants v Freo 6 years 3 weeks ago #144

cletus
No...the argument against RoLy IS real, and is well past being an issue.

Yesterday was, quite simply, a joke!

The skills and the effort - on such a dodgy day - were actually quite good, and, - I think it was mentioned by one of the "experts" yesterday (worst commentary team ever BTW) that for a while we were running at 80+% kicking efficiency compared to the GWS 60%. and that was why we were more than competitive.

What the problem was, was that we were simply ' out coached'. It's becoming a regular occurance.

And it's not hard to do when one of the coaches is simply unprepared to change "his style". It is simply ridiculous!!

Time and time again, - and this has been going on for some years now and deeply discussed on this website for a similar period - we get the ball from the backline, to the center line, and we have to hold it up, while we wait for our "forward structure" to get back and set up.

IT ISN'T WORKING ROSCO!!!

1) your game plan can be read like a book, and every opposition is "all over it"
and,
2) it is simply unsustainable and unworkable and 'crazy' that you could expect it to be workable.

For the latter point, can the RoLy supporters, please give evidence of where it ever has given a team success.??? I'm assuming they'll retort with Sydney 2005...even though Barry Hall was a stay at home forward. ...

The issue is - and this can be viewed from a ' many seasons level ' or a 'game day' level (such as yesterday...) - WHY DOES HE PERSIST WITH IT..????!!!!

It does not work, and it can not work.

No, all the other teams DO NOT play like us.

No, all the opposition teams ARE NOT doing what we are doing and 'just doing it better'.

For any supporter of RoLy, please tell me why - at some point yesterday - could he have not just left a couple of blokes down in the forward line, awaiting a kick out of the backline/center line???? The opposition is never going to leave 2 blokes unmanned, plonked in the forward line. And if they did, then all the better for us when the kicker comes through the midfield looking for someone to kick to.

There'll still be equal numbers around the ball, there is absolutely no need to have 18 vs 18 around around the ball. It is a RoLy-ism and it is outdated, never brought real, sustainable success, and it is simply carp!!

In my humble view, yesterday is all about the coach. He's not up to it.

As for his forward line coach, David Hale, well...there's a bloke that has the easiest job in the world, because Fremantle simply don't have a forward line, and he's got absolutely nothing to do...

The only thing that is going to change all this is bums on seats. Unfortnately, the novelty of the new stadium will mean crowd numbers will not accurately reflect our displeasure with our 'out of tune' coach.
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DazzElle, Corporal Agarn, freo00 said You Beaut

hypen Giants v Freo 6 years 3 weeks ago #145

hypen
I thought our forward set up was okay at home against Essendon and Gold Coast.

Away it's different as Davo illustrates.

Is he thinking games against the two very good teams we have played away are going to be blow outs?
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guy smiley Giants v Freo 6 years 3 weeks ago #146

guy smiley
Cletus, well spotted... in the first Q I think it was, the appalling commentary team led by that jingo spouting freak referred to Freo's superior skills and it was obvious watching. Freo were sharp.

I'm a bit over hearing the bleating about not coaching skills, it's clearly a furphy. They've worked on it.

On Friday night Collingwood strolled into Adelaide and rolled them like so much spinach and ricotta in filo pastry. They had their way with them, made them their private dancers. Shall we now embark on a lusty, longwinded bleat about Adelaide's lack of skills and game plan? No... we'll reflect on how any team slightly off their best can be made to look silly by any other team these days because the way the game is played does that.

I think there are deficiencies in how Freo are playing the game and I'm still to decide whether RoLy is on the way to turning it around and genuinely building a team that can go on and do the job. I saw enough in the two wins to think it's possible and even likely that things are on the up and he was making the right noises in the clips I saw of him speaking.

So this last game, against a genuine top contender chock full of star players on an unknown ground in difficult conditions threw up a loss and some disappointing structural issues. That's what happened.

No-one KNOWS what RoLy's game plan is so definitive statements about it being this or that are only opinion. Pumping the tyres pregame and spouting endless positivity in the face of logic and reason is annoying to read but so is the sight of longwinded posts based on nothing much more than angry hot air.

Give it 6-8 weeks. Every season takes that long to reveal form and likely ladder spots so we should extend the same courtesy to making judgements about where any individual team is at. Playing rookies hardly ever leads to immediate dominance and the more inexperienced players you have out there the more you risk being flattened. Those young guys are learning and developing. That's a good thing... maybe it's all you'll get to enjoy for a while. Meanwhile, start looking at other games and watching how many times other teams don't have a forward line or kick poorly.
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Rythum_man, Morgan, DocDocker, Dockerplus, rogerrocks, Flag_2005, finalport, Noddy, Hamihill, Rhufus said You Beaut

Morgan Giants v Freo 6 years 3 weeks ago #147

Morgan
Hypen, I find it very hard to comment on TV games, as you can't really see forward of the ball. I though our positioning was pretty good for the Essendon game though. It will be interesting to see how it looks against the Bulldogs.

I'm curious though, that to a poster it seems everyone agrees we are moving the ball out of defence more efficiently from the backline and through the middle. Does Lyon get any credit for this, because it doesn't seem like he does.

In my view, the improvement has a lot more to do with the fact we have guys like Wilson and Ryan there now who are much better with the football than guys like Spurr and Sutcliffe. I tend to think good players make coaches and not the other way.

I consider it an entirely consistent position to say that some of the explanation for an anaemic forward line lies with the fact that we have - at best - a bottom 6 forward line for talent.

But if you are of the view that everything rests with the coach, how can you not credit Lyon with the improvement in the backline while sending brickbats for the forward line?
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goodie said You Beaut

guy smiley Giants v Freo 6 years 3 weeks ago #148

guy smiley
The interview I saw on Fox before the Essendon game was notable for the emphasis RoLy placed the post season review identifying ball movement out of defense as a problem.

So they went and fixed that... and look at the difference.
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Noddy said You Beaut

hypen Giants v Freo 6 years 3 weeks ago #149

hypen
If you were directing that last post at me Morgan I don't blame Lyon for everything. I think we have a talented forward line certainly something to work with. I just can't understand why they are never there when we play away.

I do get a sense Lyon values defense, contested ball and effort more than skill and forward line organisation. Every coach/person has a bias, I think Lyon has an unhealthy bias.
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DocDocker said You Beaut

Morgan Giants v Freo 6 years 3 weeks ago #150

Morgan
It was more the room.

But I'm curious about the talented forward line comment. Where would you rank Freo for talent in the league in the forward line?

I'd rate our forward line:
well below: Adelaide, Essendon, Gold Coast, GWS, Hawthorn, Melbourne, Port, Sydney, West Coast;
a little below: Footscray, Geelong, North; and
on par with: Brisbane, Carlton, Collingwood, St Kilda.

So I'm not really surprised when we play like a bottom 4 offence.
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Noddy Giants v Freo 6 years 3 weeks ago #151

Noddy
Luke McPharlin addressed the alleged lack of skill argument on pre game radio yesterday. He basically said all AFL players have good skills and depending on how games pan out affects how those skills are applied in any game. For example, when you are under the pump and if things dont go your way through drop of the ball or umpiring then loss of confidence can build and skills suffer. I have a great deal of respect for Elvis and his knowledge of the game.

The lack of skill argument in regard to training regime is a nonsense.

As for the forward line, how did Adelaide go on Friday night with a forward line brimming with talent.
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hypen Giants v Freo 6 years 3 weeks ago #152

hypen
I really rate Macarthy as a mobile skilled forward, he needs it to be simple. Taberner is really talented and getting better. Walters, say no more. Mundy.

Yeah ok it's not great.

But that has nothing to do with how they set up.
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exceed Giants v Freo 6 years 3 weeks ago #153

exceed
Why does our supposedly inferior brothers up the road, with a supposedly weak midfield and supposedly poor coach have been able to get good forward entries and score well alla against gcs. They have been very good the day simmo walked thru the door and said’ great fitness but poor skills’.

The truth of the matter is we always over estimate our list with our coaches etc. you can’t have it both ways we have a good list and poor coach or a weak list and great coach.

As always freo are either too far in front of trends or too far behind. Just sad really.
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The_Yeti Giants v Freo 6 years 3 weeks ago #154

The_Yeti
Guy,

in response to your post, I will say that I disagree with you dismissing the idea of coaching skills as a furphy. I would point out that Clarkson made a priority of coaching ball handling skills and maybe 4 premierships might add some substance to that argument. As a further argument, I would also point out that in pristine playing conditions we had a lower scoring efficiency than GWS had yesterday in terrible conditions.

Part of that is structural as you pointed out but part of that are ball handling skills. The same commentary team that pointed out Freo made better use of the ball in the first quarter also pointed out the opposite early in the 4th.

Yes, we generally used the ball better int he first quarter but GWS improved what they were doing and surpassed us. The same commentary team pointed that Freo were getting their share of ball but poor ball use was wasting those efforts. Getting 3 more inside 50 entries for half the shots on goal tend to lend weight to that comment.

I would also say in regards to the first quarter that GWS were pretty poor playing in those conditions so it wasn't a high bar to get over. they did improve markedly.

Structurally, what I have observed is against the middle of the road sides, we have players forward of the ball and we score much better. Against the better sides, we revert to an emphasis on defence and place more players behind the ball and score poorly. That needs to change as we cannot beat the better sides by trying to prevent them scoring.

I also disagree with your comment on the game plan. You can tell how it works by watching it long enough. Certainly opposition coaches do exactly that.

As for just dismissing contrary opinions as long winded based on angry hot air, try actually debating the specifics. Points are being raised that are pertinent and deserve a better response.

Can Roly bring about the required changes? I don't know but when i see him revert to his defensive style against better sides, I'm inclined to think that to be unlikely. I am sure that change is required but I'm unsure if Roly is capable of providing that change.
Egurls Suck!
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Placekick, freo00 said You Beaut
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