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TOPIC: Hypothetical Coach Trade

rogerrocks Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #85

rogerrocks
I'm assuming that the board members watch the footy and make decisions themselves. They might also bump into Poly in the car park and have to answer some tough questions. Some, like Bell, probably have connections in footy circles. At some point they have to deal with a coach who doesn't succeed. But I don't think that will happen at Freo, because I think we'll do very well over the next 3 years.
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Rhufus Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #86

Rhufus
For mine, Clarkson is the best coach in the AFL. Not really because of the flags necessarily, but the way the Hawks play the game. The best coach is not the one with the most flags, (although in this case it is) its the one who can most improve the squad at his disposal regardless of talent and get them playing a brand, that when the stars finally align and the recruiters get it right and the age demographic matures, you are left with an outfit that is playing a style that will stand up in the big games.

I always ask myself if Roly had been coaching that Hawks team for a year in 2013 and Clarko had that 2013 Docker team, who would have won the GF? No one knows but my bet is the Dockers would have. Even when we were beating everybody, including Geelong, we could never beat Hawthorn, the coach was too good. It was clear that each match against Hawks we were out coached.

Roly may still be the second best coach in the AFL, for some no - way, others the jury is still out. The problem is its hard to cut him slack when he perservered so long with guys like the Fist when we could have had an A. Pearce, a Luke Ryan or...anybody really.

His delay until now, in getting quality kickers into the side count against him too. His inability to coach a structured forward line that stayed forward of the ball, the way its taken 5 years to learn not to bomb it into the forward line, the way its taken 5 years to learn not to kick backwards (unless certain parameters were met), the way its taken so long to teach the players not to get sucked into the ball, the way Sandi hasnt been coached on what to do after marking a ball, the way Ballas hasnt been coached to stay on his feet or until last two games to stay front and centre..... we all could go on with a hundred one per centers. Stuff we learned in under 10s.
To see the senior players on the weekend panic so much in front of goal, that lack of composure, is an age old problem for Freo. Watch the robotic precision of high percentage play the Hawks do as they approach the goals. Clarkson doesnt allow stupid snaps from the pocket off half a step falling over when you are clear and could take an extra second and centre the ball. Its so frustrating.

The fact that the Dockers look like they addressing these issues now is great in one way but makes it even more frustrating why everything takes so long for Roly to recognise??? Its like we are starting from square one again.
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teasea, freo00 said You Beaut

Raglan Matt Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #87

Raglan Matt
The Freo players didn't look like they were panicking when taking the set shots that missed. They are the thing that is costing us at the moment, and the missed set shots on goal were what cost us the 2013 flag (along with Tommy). The indictment on RoLy is that 5 seasons down the track this is still a problem.
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freo00 said You Beaut

Suker Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #88

Suker
Leigh Mathews after 2013 GF, "The difference today was that one team took its chances the other one didn't." The year before Sydney took their chances and the hawks didn't. Taking your chances is paramount. We often don't do this well. Is this is a coaching issue? More skills training? More focus on goalkicking? More focus on one player not falling over? Can teams overachieve? No. What players achieve must be what they are capable of. To me...my beef with Lyon is his persistence with some players for no apparent reason other than "stability" or hard-headed loyalty and his attitude to attack. This is what the hawks did so well...whole team defence able to auto-revert to manic attack. They did have a magnificent team of players and were just better than the whole comp. Very coachable one may say.
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freo00 said You Beaut

Morgan Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #89

Morgan
A Pearce is pretty good, but I’m grateful Lyon didn’t play him with a broken leg. That seems more like a Harvey move.

Freo didn’t win the GF because Hawthorn were a better side, had been there before, and were playing in difficult conditions on their home ground. Freo either didn’t adapt to the swirling breeze, or choked in front of goal, depending on how charitable you feel.
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Docker by the Sea, Suker said You Beaut

Noddy Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #90

Noddy
So any easy goal missed by a goal kicking gun or flat footed boofhead is an indictment on the coach? I don’t think so.
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Suker said You Beaut

Raglan Matt Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #91

Raglan Matt
What I said Noddy, was that missing set shots on goal cost us the 2013 GF. The fact that the same thing is a problem 5 seasons later IS an indictment on the coaching staff. They have had the opportunity to improve the goalkicking skills of our players, or move them on and find some players who can kick straight. They have done neither.
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Noddy Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #92

Noddy
I just think in any given round any side can have a poor day having shots for goal and I think history would clearly show that.
There seems to be this perception that every mistake of a player is the coach or coaching staff fault, I don’t hold that view.
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Jezza Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #93

Jezza
There are some arguments here that’s just plain dumb. Players missing set shots for goal have been an indictment on the game since Plugger. There’ll be days when you’re on and other days not. If you think Roly is responsible for missing set shots then follow netball. Those girls don’t miss. Max Gawn, 25m slight angle kicking to win the match in Rd 1 against Geelong. His theory is that he’s just rubbish at close range. Mundy on the other hand just don’t miss. Try another theory and I might just be interested.
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Noddy said You Beaut

Morgan Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #94

Morgan
One point that people continually return to is that poor skills on the park are ultimately the fault of the head coach. While I suppose in one sense everything is ultimately the head coach’s responsibility, I’m not sure how much any one coach actually affects a player’s skill over their career.

Or, put another way, how much do we expect any individual player’s skills to improve from the day they walk into the club to the day they walk out? And of that improvement, how much is attributable to the head coach? For mine, the answer is very little.

I reckon when it comes to skill, the player who walks out the door closely resembles the one that walks in. If there is incremental improvement, it has much more to do with the mindset of the player and the specialist coaches than the head coach.

Take someone like Brayshaw who just came to the club. I reckon he’s put hundreds and hundreds of hours into working on his skills already. The reports from the club are that he’s the type of guy who will work on his game for his entire career. He’s not going to be out there with Lyon doing that. He’s going to focus every day on the track, and get guidance from dozens of coaches over his career. What skill improvement might we see? Well, he might get a bit more accurate, he might add a bit of length. More likely it will be decision-making that improves as he picks up the pace of the game and how AFL clubs play.

If he misses sets shots in 5 years’ time, I don’t think you can put that on the head coach for not teaching him how to kick.
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shane Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #95

shane
A poor kick is a player's fault but surely a team kicking poorly is a preparation issue.

Or, put another way, what is a coach responsible for. As far as I can tell Ross Lyon has no duties.
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The_Yeti, Raglan Matt said You Beaut

The_Yeti Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #96

The_Yeti
You also need to factor in the known issue of poor skills over a number of years along with interviews by Roly where he states he doesn't train skills (except this year we've suddenly decided that 20 minutes skills training will have us all tickety-boo)
Egurls Suck!
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Raglan Matt Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #97

Raglan Matt
Jezza, without having a great deal of knowledge in netball, I will bet London to a brick on, that the netball coaches prioritise goalshooting practice for their team goalshooters. I have read numerous books where players and coaches have admitted that players and coaches don't spend anywhere near enough time practicing goalkicking. If they did we would consistently see set shot conversion ratios of around 80% for our forwards and goalshooting mids. There is an excuse for missing shots in play, but we are not talking about those misses. So yes, if things haven't changed in 5 years, I think the coaching staff should wear the blame.
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Docker by the Sea Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #98

Docker by the Sea
Talking to my Hawks supporting mate, lamenting their persistence in bombing the ball into the forward line.
Clarkson obviously had a bad day in the box.
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Noddy said You Beaut